Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tropical Storm Marco (1990)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 18:43, 16 February 2010.

Tropical Storm Marco (1990)

 * Nominator(s): Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 01:38, 23 January 2010 (UTC) and Hurricanehink 01:38, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I have done an all-over look of an old friend (now-retired Hurricanehink) editor's article. He offered me to nominate it, and I accepted it. All comments are welcome. NOTE: I will add Alt Text as soon as possible. Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 01:38, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Ucucha 15:58, 30 January 2010 (UTC)


 * ALT Text is now in. Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 02:14, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Alt text is good (thanks), except the alt text for File:Klaus Marco Rainfall Amounts.gif should briefly say the gist of the map (where did most of the rain fall? and how much rain was it?) rather than giving irrelevant details such as color. Please see WP:ALT for guidance. Eubulides (talk) 07:03, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 14:29, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 17:24, 23 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Check the toolbox; there are a couple of dead links. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:40, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 15:51, 23 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments by mav (Urgent FACs/FARs) -
 * In ==Preparations== it says "the Tampa Bay" - is an "area" supposed to be at the end of that or does the "the" need to be deleted?
 * Done. Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 22:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Something odd about the construction of this sentence, suggest revision; "With most of its circulation over the western portion of Florida during its duration, Tropical Storm Marco produced tropical storm force winds across western Florida."
 * Done. Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 22:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Watch out for excess commas. Many sentences are a bit choppy due to that.
 * Care to point some of these sentences out? Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 22:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't there be an ==Aftermath== section? If not, why not.
 * Klaus and Marco, since the two had an unusual interaction, caused rather little, outside of rainfall and about $30 million in damage. Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 22:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments -
 * Newspapers titles in the references should be in italics. If you're using cite news, use the work field for the title of the paper, and the publisher field for the name of the actual company that publishes the paper
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * All done. :) - Mitch 32(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!) 02:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This was not nominated for intent of the WikiCup, which I've been pretty quiet in. This is strictly to get rid of this blasted streak of FA-less in a year. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 15:58, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Oppose—Poor linking practices.
 * Why is "United States" linked? And twice????
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "during its duration"?
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Rather than bunch linked words, this would be neater: Louisville, Georgia. Same for the other duplets.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Why are "inches" and "mm" linked? Why is Cuba linked twice? Why is "atmosphere" linked?
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "Prior to the arrival of the storm"—bit ungainly. "Before the storm arrived"?
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Chain link again: "Florida Governor" must surely appear as a link at the top of the Bob Martinez article. Why link both. Just the more specific one, please.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd have thought no need for "USD" at all. Certainly not $ and D. And why repeated three times in one line? We got it the first time, and didn't even need it then.
 * This is for inflation mainly, because the prices are written in 1990 US Dollar and the inflation is there for the 2009. I got most of these. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * cold-front linked again.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "President" doesn't need a link: it's bunched next to the guy's name.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * MOSDASH: unspaced en dash please.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Hidden link (2008). Why not put it 3 cm below in See also, not hidden? Note: preceding review by at 02:15 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 07:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * NOTE: After attempts to get a reply, I do not think the review is any interested in reviewing again or retracting the oppose. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 18:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

 Pending Support Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Overall, nice article, interesting but it needs some prose work.
 * With most of its circulation over the western portion of Florida, Tropical Storm Marco produced tropical storm-force winds over land. ..... Ummmmm, and wouldn't we expect that a tropical storm would produce tropical storm force winds? How about produced winds of 100 mph over land? Or something like that.


 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The Lead mentions nothing about the peculiar interaction with Hurricanes Klaus and Lili, although this seems to be a specific feature of this TS. Suggest adjustment to the lead to reflect this.


 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * in section on development, it needs to be clearer how Tropical Depression 15 absorbed Klaus.


 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ...while located northeast of Cuba. The TS? Or the the NHC?


 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:16, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * tracked along the coast of Cuba.... tracked parallel to the coast of Cuba before veering northward and crossing the Florida Keys?


 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * next paragraph: you just use just a few too many times to just make complete sense.  Perhaps don't use it at all?  It's one of those fluffy words.


 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * and by six hours after its peak intensity Marco reached a position about 6 miles (10 km) west of Bradenton Beach; .... I don't understand this. For six hours, after it reached its peak intensity, it traveled from Englewood to Bradenton Beach, a distance of how many miles (I don't think it's far).  And why is peak intensity important here?  Was it declining by the time it reached Bradenton?


 * Clarified. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 14:25, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * much of its circulation was over land,[2] and initially the storm was forecast to move ashore between Fort Myers and Sarasota.[4] However, the cyclone continued northward just offshore, and weakened to a tropical depression just prior to making landfall near Cedar Key early on October 12.[2]  .... When it reached Bradenton Beach, most of its mass circulated over land. Initially, forecasters predicted the storm would move ashore between Fort Myers and Sarasota. However, it continued northward, the center remaining offshore, and weakened to a tropical depression prior to making landfall near Cedar Key early on October 12.


 * Can you clarify what you want here? Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I tweaked this a bit, and I think it makes more sense now. See what you think. Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Because much of its inner circulation had crossed over Saint Petersburg as a tropical storm, Marco was considered a tropical storm direct hit for the United States, the only of the year for the country; had it not been considered a direct hit, the season would have been the first since 1890 without a tropical storm or hurricane direct hit on the nation. .... this makes no sense to me.


 * Tried my best to make some sense of it. I know what it wants to say, but I can't seem to think of how to write it. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I shifted some stuff around for you. I think it makes more sense now. See what you think. Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * how does a hurricane accelerate and weaken at the same time. What does this mean?  (It moves faster, but produces less wind and rain?...faster but produces less wind, more rain?


 * Clarified. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * With most of its circulation over the western portion of Florida during its existence, Tropical Storm Marco produced tropical storm force winds across western Florida.... see above.


 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * So these are the kinds of problems throughout the article . I'll expect you can find these yourself.  This said, however, it 's very interesting and I'm looking forward to supporting it.Auntieruth55 (talk) 19:24, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Support
 * You have some damages inflated to 2007 USD and some to 2009. I would suggest that you use the inflation template so that you dont have to go back and keep updating the article.Jason Rees (talk) 23:38, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 00:17, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You made a minor mistake by removing the damage totals but ive fixed it.Jason Rees (talk) 02:56, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Review by Imzadi1979

I haven't done much at FAC lately, but I thought I'd give this article some feedback. This review is not intended to be all-encompassing, nor will it review all aspects of the article necessarily. I feel this article meets FA criteria 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e, 2a, 2b, 3 and 4. My issues with it are minor, including some formatting and minor grammar changes, and I can't see opposing promotion. I look forward to seeing the changes made and giving this my full support. Imzadi1979 (talk) 06:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1a
 * 1) The sentence: "The storm tracked parallel to the coast of Cuba before veering northward and crossing the Florida Keys, where it intensified into Tropical Storm Marco about 35 miles (55 km) south-southwest of Key West, Florida.[2]" confused me. According to the storm-track map, wasn't it south-south'east of Key West? The map never shows it southwest of Key West, unless I'm mistaking the island for another.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) "After landfall, the cyclone accelerated in forward speed northward, weakening in intensity, and, by 1200 UTC on October 12, Marco became into an extra-tropical cyclone." The phrase "became into" sounds awkward to me. Maybe drop the "into"?
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) "A cold front absorbed the weakening low was to its north on October 13,[2] though moisture from the remnants of Marco dropped heavy rainfall across the southeast United States for another day.[3]" How about "The cold front that absorbed the weakening low was to the storm's north on October 13,[2] though moisture..."
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) "Florida governor Bob Martinez ordered for the closure of state offices in the Tampa Bay, and also decided not to open the University of South Florida and other area community colleges." Ok, there's two problems with this sentence. As written, I'd conclude that the state offices are out in the middle of the bay, but I know that's not the case. Either put "area" after "Tampa Bay", or drop the "the". The second problem is that it's a mal-formed sentence. You should add the word "he" after the "and" joining the two clauses of the sentence together.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) This is really minor, and would not hold the article up for me, but the conversion 2.62 feet (0.8 m) looks wrong to me. The given figure is 2.62 feet, which has 3 figures. The converted figure is 0.8, which only has 2 figures. I assume that the source data was measured in metric. If that's the case, and the 2.62 feet is the converted figure, then round that to 2.6 feet (0.8 m). If it was measured in SAE, then reconvert the metric to increase the decimal places by one to match the SAE better. Basically, my rule of thumb is that a converted number can't be more, and shouldn't be less, precise than the original measurements.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) There are a few places I'd consider dropping the semicolons in favor joining the sentences together with "and".
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 2c:
 * 1) Refs 10, 13, 15 should have the newspaper name in italics. My gut reaction is that Ref 19 should not have "Associated Press" in italics, since that is not the name of a publication, but rather a company.
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) For the newspaper references in general, do you know if these came from the print edition, or originally from an online edition? I'd like to see page numbers if they were the print edition. If they were from an online edition, maybe http://www.archive.org/ has the saved copies that you could relink them?
 * Problem here is that its 1990, not 2009, internet was barely anything ;) - Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 11:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you misunderstood my point, and I'm afraid since you didn't originate this article you can't fix the issue . If these newspaper articles used as sources were obtained from the print edition, be it archived on microfiche or microfilm, the resulting references given in the article should have page numbers attached. That way readers desiring to do so can find the original articles, a tenet of WP:V. If they were obtained from an online archive that doesn't reproduce the physical print edition, then there should be a URL someplace to point the readers to, even if the articles are from 1990 or 1890. Taking ref 4, for instance, I found that shows that it was printed on pages 1–2A. That link also shows that there was a second author that wasn't credited with that source. To find that link, all I had to to was Google the article's exact title in quotation marks. I assume the rest of the 1990 St. Petersburg Times articles should be online similarly. Imzadi1979 (talk) 18:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looking at it again, there's one author credited in the "Suncoast" edition, and two in the "Tampa" edition. Both editions are in the same Google News archive. You'll probably want to take some time to determine which edition was used as a source, and then note that in the references. Imzadi1979 (talk) 18:18, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 18:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Summary
 * I'm willing to go on a limb and Support the article. Mitch has satisfied my concerns that the page numbers are missing, and unless he's traveling to Florida in the next several days, the remaining page numbers will have to remain missing at this time. I would suggest that he endeavor to locate them, and specify which editions of the paper were used as references, since it seems that The St. Petersburg Times does publish different editions, and the articles have different author bylines. Imzadi1979 (talk) 19:09, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I've found the following sources via NewsBank. I'm guessing "Index Terms" and "Record Number" are used by the database. Also, why is "et al" used instead of specifying the authors? If you need their names, I should be able to retrieve them.  « ₣M₣ »  15:34, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Tropical storm spawns tornado
 * St. Petersburg Times - Friday, October 12, 1990
 * Author: Jim Ross ; Ken Moritsugu ; Steve Drummond


 * Edition: City
 * Section: Citrus Times
 * Page: 1
 * Index Terms: weather article
 * Dateline: Crystal River
 * Record Number: 196

State employees get day off, but children attend school
 * St. Petersburg Times - Friday, October 12, 1990
 * Author: Bill Adair ; Bill Duryea ; Stephen Hegarty ; Elijah Gosier


 * Edition: City
 * Section: National
 * Page: 12A
 * Index Terms: weather article safety
 * Record Number: 223


 * All done! Thanks so much for posting on this dead FAC. :) - Mitch 32(We the people in order to form a more perfect union.) 17:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.