Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tropical Storm Vicente (2018)/archive2

Tropical Storm Vicente (2018)

 * Nominator(s): Noah Talk 12:38, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

This article is about Hurricane Willa's "little brother" which caused some significant damage in the area south of where Willa made landfall. I am nominating this since Dorian's Met has finished and Willa is a co-nom. Hopefully, this can proceed now that my family health emergency is resolved. Noah Talk 12:38, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Source Review by Nikkimaria
Comment - I'm noticing a lot of the same source formatting inconsistencies that were present in the Willa FAC; could you take a run through and fix things before a full source review? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:23, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I fixed everything that immediately stood out. Noah Talk 13:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * The infobox gives a damage figure of $7.05 million for this storm. The text gives that figure as "agricultural losses in the state of Colima from Vicente and Willa" - that's not the same thing.
 * Deleted the parameter from the infobox as there is no value then. Noah Talk 23:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Some of the details in the lead don't appear to be cited anywhere - for example, that Colima had torrential rainfall
 * Think this is resolved. Noah Talk 23:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Some of the content in the See also section warrants citing
 * Sourced. Noah Talk 00:38, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in whether reports include publishers
 * Looks like just one was missing. Noah Talk 23:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * FN12: work title doesn't match formatting at source
 * Are you sure? It is listed both in abbreviation and spelled out form at the top of the site. Noah Talk 23:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Fn13: work title need not be included
 * I changed publisher to KGTV San Diego which matches up better (I missed that at the bottom the first time) Noah Talk 23:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Fn15: date is listed as publisher
 * Fixed for FN 16Noah Talk 23:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Fn17: given publisher is a work. Ditto FN19, check for others
 * Think I got them all. Noah Talk 00:31, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * FNs 47, 54, check for others. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:03, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Did several more... that should be it. Noah Talk 15:03, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * What makes Regeneracion a high-quality reliable source? Sinembargo?
 * Regeneracion is the newspaper of Andrés Manuel López Obrador's political party.12 It seems to serve a similar purpose to a press secretary for politics, but it covers regular news as well. They also claim to have over 2.7M followers across various social media platforms. Noah Talk 00:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Having a lot of followers doesn't make a source reliable. What are its editorial policies? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:03, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The same source also discusses how they want to make sure information is accessable to all... They state that they are committed to honest and uncensored news, and seek to reform Mexico by reporting on corruption and allowing citizens to formulate their own opinions on topics. Noah Talk 15:03, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately a lot of biased sources use that kind of language. What are the perspectives of other sources on this one? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:59, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Im just going to remove the source as everyone says the government of mexico cant be trusted. I will switch it out for another La Silla Rota article if that is okay with you. Noah Talk 22:19, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sinembargo lists all of its staff and it has accreditation with several news agencies including AP. Noah Talk 00:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * FN36 is incomplete. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:36, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Added NVI Noticias for work title. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 00:38, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Support by Jarodalien

 * Comment: English is not my native language, but I think shorter by the same meaning is better than longer, so how about change "Vicente peaked late on October 20 with winds of 50 mph (85 km/h) and a minimum pressure of 1002 mbar. At its peak, Vicente displayed a sporadic eye feature in its central dense overcast...Vicente weakened into a tropical depression early on October 23 and made landfall near Playa Azul at 13:30 UTC. After moving ashore, Vicente quickly lost organization and dissipated a few hours later." to "Late on October 20, Vicente displayed a sporadic eye feature in its central dense overcast and peaked with winds of 50 mph (85 km/h) also a minimum pressure of 1002 mbar...Vicente weakened into a tropical depression early on October 23 and made landfall near Playa Azul at 13:30 UTC, then quickly lost organization and dissipated a few hours later."?--Jarodalien (talk) 08:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That would simply be too much for two sentences. Combining that material would create runon sentences. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 10:45, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * How about just the second part?--Jarodalien (talk) 11:04, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It is looked down upon to talk about weakening twice in the same sentence. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 11:34, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * support.--Jarodalien (talk) 02:53, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Support by JavaHurricane
And that is it.  Java Hurricane  15:12, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * "Soon after, outflow from the nearby Hurricane Willa caused further weakening. Vicente weakened into a tropical depression early on October 23 and made landfall near Playa Azul at 13:30 UTC. After moving ashore, Vicente quickly lost organization and dissipated a few hours later." I am uncomfortable with this part of the lead. I'd suggest rephrasing to "However, outflow from the nearby Hurricane Willa caused Vicente to weaken into a tropical depression on October 23. After making landfall as a depression near Playa Azul at 13:30 UTC that day, Vicente quickly lost organization and dissipated a few hours later."
 * No need to mention "Tropical Storm Vicente" at the start of the second paragraph. Just "Vicente" would do.
 * I would say that Vicente's precursor vortex was "associated", not "affiliated", with the monsoon trough.
 * The NHC first mentioned that the system had potential for development (missing 'that' in the first line of the second para of the MH).
 * "proximity of a larger disturbance to the west; this disturbance would eventually become Hurricane Willa." Can be simplified to "proximity of a larger disturbance to the west (which later became Hurricane Willa)."
 * Lots of MOS:OVERLINK issues that should be sorted out.
 * "Schools along the coast of Michoacán were canceled to safeguard everyone from the effects of Vicente and Willa." You can't cancel schools, but you can cancel classes or shut schools.
 * Should all be fixed now. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 23:00, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Support by Lee Vilenski
I may end up claiming points towards the wikicup. Hope you don't mind! :P

I'll take a look at this article, and give some comments on how it meets the FA criteria in a little while. If you fancy doing some QPQ, I have a list of items that can be looked at here. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:43, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

lede

 * Could we split the lede into three paragraphs? The first is very large. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Split <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 16:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * landfall as a tropical depression in the Mexican state of Michoacán on October 23, 2018, causing deadly mudslides. - could we link some of this, like mudslides and tropical depression. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Linked. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 16:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The twenty-first named storm - MOS:NUM - 21 Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 16:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The single ref in the lede - is it necessary? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The 21st part would be unsourced otherwise. There has to be a source showing that 21 named storms formed. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 16:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Is this not something that could be incorporated into the body though? If it's important to state in the lede, surely it's suitable for the prose. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:04, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm just relating the storm to the season to introduce the topic. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 17:08, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * You link landfall, but it's the second usage in the lede. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 16:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Not my area, but do we need to always say " Tropical Storm Vicente", rather than just Vincente? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * In this case, I said tropical storm vicente when the storm formed and then said vicente thereafter. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 16:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Plan DN-III-E - perhaps spell this out as it has a propername. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The DN-III-E is the most common usage of it. I have never seen the propername used in Mexican newspapers. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 16:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

General

 * We have some redlinks (which is fine), do we have articles on wikidata for them we could link ill. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:55, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Added on the ones that were there. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 17:02, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The para in Veracruz could be split into two. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:55, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 17:02, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I have replied to the comments you left. Let me know if there is anything else. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 17:02, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I'll do a second pass as soon as I can. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:05, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Is there a reason you don't link to Tlacotalpan? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:19, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Same for Tenango del Valle, Tepehuacán de Guerrero and Mineral del Chico Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:19, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

That's about it from me. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:21, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Should be fixed now. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 21:30, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Coord note
I've added this to the image review list for one. --Ealdgyth (talk) 15:13, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Image review
 * File:Vicente_2018-10-23_1400Z.png: I see a "noncommercial use" license statement at the source site, but the current tagging is inconsistent with that. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, as the creator of the image I see a possible problem with the license on this image. SSEC contains an archive of some public domain raw satellite data. I constructed the image myself using the archive data and out of courtesy cite when I use the service. However, the same raw data can be accessed through NOAA and is in the public domain. If I were to use the NOAA source and produce the exact same image would this eliminate any issues? Supportstorm (talk) 20:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * What do you think about this? <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 21:15, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Would expect so. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:27, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Is that better? <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 03:20, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Replaced with File:Vicente_2018-10-23_1345Z.png? Source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:18, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Should be working now.. likely the original link simply expired or timedout. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#009200 0.3em 0.4em 1.0em,#009200 -0.2em -0.2em 1.0em;color:#009200">Noah Talk 17:45, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, looks good. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:25, 7 September 2020 (UTC)