Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/U.S. Route 30 in Iowa/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain 16:55, 8 February 2011.

U.S. Route 30 in Iowa

 * Nominator(s): –Fredddie™ 04:29, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because my previous attempt went stale due to a lack of reviewers. I've worked on this article for the better part of the last year and still feel it meets the criteria. It's one of the most important roads in the state of Iowa, probably the most historic road, and I still feel I've done the road justice. –Fredddie™ 04:29, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Support per my comments at the last FAC. The article still meets the criteria.  Imzadi  1979   →  04:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Support - This article has high quality prose and images, is referenced to reliable sources, and has broad coverage.  Dough 48  72  04:35, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Dab / El / Img check - all check out. --Admrboltz (talk) 04:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 *  Comments : Just a few comments I missed from my last review. --Admrboltz (talk) 04:57, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * In Central Iowa: "One mile (1.6 ) east" - convert is either messed up, or you didn't use convert.
 * Fixed. –Fredddie™
 * In Central Iowa: " The University Boulevard (formerly Elwood Drive) exit provides access" - cite former name?
 * Cited. –Fredddie™
 * Per MOS:RJL / MOS:ICON, the File:Airport_Sign.svg icon should be moved from being "inline" in exit 252B and either removed, or added to the front of the list (may have to not use jct).
 * Removed. –Fredddie™
 * Are the county routes signed on the BGSes on US 30? If not, they should not have shields in the RJL.
 * Yes, yes, and yes. –Fredddie™ 05:13, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I can now Support based on my comments here and on the last FAC. --Admrboltz (talk) 05:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comments
 * which connects the larger cities and towns of Denison, Ames, Cedar Rapids, and Clinton. - wouldn't that just be larger cities?
 * Struck out "and towns". –Fredddie™
 * 1.1 - 2 sentences start with "East of".
 * There were more than two in that section. Without checking the other sections, I would guess they're the same way. –Fredddie™]
 * Two consecutive sentences started with "East of". --Rschen7754 06:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * 2nd paragraph - it overlaps U.S. Route 59 (US 59) - don't need to redefine the abbrev.
 * Eliminated. –Fredddie™
 * At Jefferson and Grand Junction, the latter of the cities named for its location at the junction of the historic Chicago & Northwestern and Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroads,[8] now both owned by Union Pacific, - seems a bit overboard.
 * 1.3 - For 4 miles (6.4 km), US 30 / US 151 / US 218 is a wrong-way concurrency; where US 30 runs east, US 151 runs north and US 218 runs south. - bad sentence structure
 * Will get to this later. –Fredddie™
 * "For 4 miles (6.4 km), US 30 / US 151 / US 218 is a wrong-way concurrency; that is, where two or more routes heading in opposite directions share the same highway. In this instance, US 30 is the main east–west road while US 151 and US 218 are duplicate routes, nominally heading north and south, respectively." –Fredddie™
 * US 30 overlaps US 61 for one mile (1.6 km), crossing the Union Pacific Overland Route in the process, and leaves via a trumpet interchange. - leaves... what?
 * Leaves US 61. –Fredddie™
 * More to come once above issues addressed. --Rschen7754 05:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Everything seems to be addressed. –Fredddie™ 23:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * History - While US 30 was created in 1926, the route itself dates back to 1913, - I suppose that's ok, but although might be a better word.
 * I rearranged some words in that sentence. –Fredddie™
 * By the mid-1930s, it was routed west of Missouri Valley on old Iowa Highway 130. - should be linked earlier, not here.
 * And it is. Link removed. –Fredddie™
 * In the 1960–1970s, freeway segments along US 30 started to be built. - awkward
 * Fixed. –Fredddie™
 * Two consecutive sentences starting with "By".
 * Fixed. Twice. –Fredddie™
 * The 21st century has seen and will continue to see the widening of US 30 - we don't know this for sure.
 * Reworded. –Fredddie™
 * The 7+1⁄2-mile (12 km) section which will bypass the Tama/Toledo area, opened in segments, the first of which on November 1, and the second on November 25. - comma issues
 * Treated it like a run-on sentence and split it. –Fredddie™
 * Still need a comma in the first sentence. --Rschen7754 21:45, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Found it. –Fredddie™ 23:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Two final sections to open, from State Center to Iowa 330 and from the Meskwaki settlement to the Tama/Toledo bypass are scheduled to be completed in 2011. - again, comma issues
 * Comma added. –Fredddie™
 * The Lincoln Highway bridge in Tama was built in 1915. It was restored in the 1980s after local officials feared losing it. - choppy
 * Described its condition to clarify. –Fredddie™
 * Major jcts list - not a fan of the "US 30 exits from itself". Use a colspan and indicate the state line.
 * I'm not a fan of colspans at state lines, so I did something else. –Fredddie™
 * Notes column - no periods unless it's an abbreviation. If you've got two phrases, use semicolons.
 * Fixed. If I missed one, please fix it. –Fredddie™
 * Throughout - please go through and clear up your nomenclature, i.e. when you're using abbreviations for highways and when you're not. There's a lot of inconsistencies. --Rschen7754 07:34, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I took care of a lot of abbreviations with the round of edits I made yesterday. I'm having another editor double check this last point.  The other points have been addressed. –Fredddie™ 03:07, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support issues resolved. --Rschen7754 17:18, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Support per my review in the last FAC. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 06:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

--♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 05:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support. It's a good read, thanks for addressing my comments. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 00:18, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "federal money started to pour in and Iowa's infamous dirt roads began to be paved." - two issues. "pour in" seems kinda amateurish, likewise calling the dirt roads "infamous". IDK, could you reword slightly to reflect what's in the article?
 * Reworded. –Fredddie™
 * You still say "infamous", which I think is a poor choice of words. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed, begrudgingly. I think infamous describes this fairly well. –Fredddie™
 * "has changed to accommodate changing needs" - any way you can avoid the word change twice? (even though they are in different forms)
 * Reworded. –Fredddie™
 * Better, but in that same sentence, is there any way you could clear up the clunky writing of: "Lincoln Highway followed and US 30 follows"? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Reworded again.
 * You mention Missouri Valley three times in as many sentences. Any way to cut on the redundancy? The same exact thing happens with Loess Hills.
 * Removed an instance of each. –Fredddie™
 * "Iowa Highway 127 (Iowa 127)" - any reason for what's in parenthesis?
 * When an item is abbreviated, it is considered good form for the first usage to be spelled out in full with the abbreviation after it in parentheses. In this case, the abbreviated form for an Iowa state highway is "Iowa" and the number. (Previously, an erroneous "IA " construction was in use.)  Imzadi  1979   →  06:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. "Iowa X" is the most common abbreviation used by the Iowa DOT.  I added in more usages because the article had very few.  Same with U.S. Route X→US X and Interstate X→I-X. –Fredddie™
 * Yea, I know what it stood for in parenthesis, but it stood out because that's one of the few times in the article it appears that way. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Four miles (6.4 km)" - if you're doing distance, the numbers should be numbers, not written as words. You do that a lot, and it's inconsistent.
 * Numerals less than ten should be spell out. Since the level of precision isn't greater than the whole unit, this is correct per the MOS.  Imzadi 1979  →   06:58, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No, actually WP:MOSNUM says "Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures". Please fix. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Replaced the ones I could. The rest are at the beginnings of sentences per MOSNUM. –Fredddie™
 * "which extends 105 miles (169 km) to Des Moines" - in which direction does it extend? Just curious
 * East, in fact. –Fredddie™
 * "it intersects U.S. Route 71 at a signal-controlled intersection" - two issues. First, you use intersects and intersection in the same sentence. More importantly, you only link to Intersection (road), which I'm not too sure is that helpful. You mention intersections several other times in the article, so I'm not sure why that is the first time.
 * Reworded. –Fredddie™
 * "Continuing east, the highway passes through the town of Glidden and passes to the north of Ralston" - can you avoid using "passes" twice? What about "the highway passes through Glidden and later to the north of Ralston."
 * Fixed. –Fredddie™
 * "At Jefferson and Grand Junction, the latter of the cities named for its location at the junction of the historic Chicago & Northwestern and Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroads,[8] now both owned by Union Pacific, US 30 crosses Iowa Highway 4 and Iowa Highway 144 on the northern edge of each town, respectively" - whoa, long
 * Fixed the run-on. –Fredddie™
 * Ehh, but you turned it into a sentence fragment. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Ouch. Rearranged that sentence. –Fredddie™
 * "US 169 exits to the south at a partial cloverleaf interchange. It continues " - careful with the wording, as "it"'s antecedent is implied to be US 169.
 * Replaced it. –Fredddie™
 * "On the outskirts of Ames are the Lincoln Way interchanges. Access to and from Lincoln Way is handled by two half interchanges 3⁄4 miles (1.2 km) apart." - those two sentences could easily be one
 * Combined. –Fredddie™
 * "On the outskirts of Ames are the Lincoln Way interchanges; " - why the semicolon? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Forgot why, changed it to a comma. –Fredddie™
 * "1+3⁄4 miles (2.8 km)" - why the mixture of format? It should be consistent across the article
 * MoS says fractions can be used for imperial units so long as they're used consistently and never used for metric units; I think they are. I actually prefer to use fractions because the exact lengths, measured to three decimal places, are listed in the junction list at the bottom.  I could switch the fractions to the three decimal place measurement, but then I would be asked why it's so precise. –Fredddie™
 * IDK, MOS also says "Converted values should use a level of precision similar to that of the source value", so further precision wouldn't be a problem as long as it was consistent. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason Ames isn't linked in the body of the article?
 * Aggressive duplicate link removal as requested in the first FAC. –Fredddie™
 * "The Dayton Avenue interchange serves hotels and restaurants and is a travel stop for I-35 travelers." - that's unsourced
 * Cited to an old travel guide I had. –Fredddie™
 * "to where the four-lane expressway ends at State Center. Just before the Iowa 330 interchange, the road becomes a four-lane expressway again." - there is no context there. How long is it not an expressway?
 * Inserted length. –Fredddie™
 * (skipping the rest of the route description for now)
 * "Over $5 million" - what year's USD? And what would that be in today's dollars?
 * Not actionable: see Featured article candidates/M-6 (Michigan highway)/archive1 for why. --Rschen7754 05:55, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Inflation figures are commented out for this reason. –Fredddie™
 * What about using the inflation that the rest of Wikipedia uses? I'm sorry, I hardly find it inactionable. $5 million is $ USD) in today's USD, assuming 1913 is the USD in the article. It's that easy, and I think it's useful. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk )  18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * From that template's documentation: "This template is only capable of inflating Consumer Price Index values: staples, workers rent, small service bills (doctor's costs, train tickets). This template is incapable of inflating Capital expenses, government expenses, or the personal wealth and expenditure of the rich. Incorrect use of this template would constitute original research, if you yourself do not possess it, please consult someone with economic training before making use of this." Until the economic gurus come up with a way to make the template, or another template, work for capital expenses like roads or bridges, we've been commenting out the conversions. (M-6 had them until the comments in its FAC which just closed the other day.)  Imzadi 1979  →   19:34, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The Inflation coding is there and it works, it's just commented out until the M-6 issue is resolved. –Fredddie™
 * Another quibble. The first paragraph of the "Lincoln Highway" section has passive voice in every single sentence. It gets old seeing "was designated", "had done", etc.
 * I understand your concern here, but I think changing the voice would change the meaning of the section. –Fredddie™
 * Not at all. Who raised the money for the road? Who designated the highway? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Reasonable enough, changed. –Fredddie™
 * "By 1922, 334 miles (538 km), only five percent of roads were paved." - I don't get that. Why is the 334 mi mentioned?
 * Reworded that sentence for clarity. –Fredddie™
 * "and a 17-mile (27 km) southern jaunt through Belle Plaine" - jaunt, really?
 * Do you have any suggestions? I honestly don't know what else to call this. –Fredddie™
 * I'm actually really sorry, I'm used to hearing jaunt as a slang word. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "along an 11-mile (18 km)" - once again, there should be consistency across units, dash or not, written out or not
 * This is done according the to MOS. When a measurement is being used as an adjective, the unit is spelled out in full and hyphenated. Sorry, another unactionable comment.  Imzadi  1979   →  06:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Except for 1 mile=1.6 km, I used Convert for every conversion. –Fredddie™
 * I was edit conflicted when I replied, so if something was removed, my apologies. –Fredddie™ 07:29, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments.
 * 1) "with much of the highway traveling through rolling farmland"—yeah, it's ok as an image, I guess; but cars do the travelling, not roads. No problem if there's no way of rewording this. You have, actually, made a good attempt to give an engaging narrative of physical environment. Nice.
 * I'm going to leave this one as it is. Trekking and traversing don't really work as I'd like then to, and I use passing enough as it is.  I am not opposed to a better word if someone comes up with one. –Fredddie™
 * rep: "it passes through the flat Missouri River bottoms, passing"
 * Removed one of the offenders. –Fredddie™
 * 1) "The highway runs parallel to the Boyer River, as well as the Overland Route, in a general northeast direction from Logan." I though the commas went bumpety-bump. Does it work without them?
 * I think it does. Removed. –Fredddie™
 * 1) "At Denison, it overlaps US 59 and Iowa 141, which run concurrently through Denison, for a half-mile (0.80 km)". When I see bumpy commas (here they're necessary in the current order), I think of possible re-orderings. How is this? "For half a mile (0.80 km) through Denison, it overlaps US 59  and Iowa 141, which run concurrently through the town".
 * I like that. Switched. –Fredddie™
 * 1) I used to add a formulaic comma after all sentence-initial prepositional phrase; now I ask whether each one can be dispensed with. Occasionally it can, like "North of Scranton it meets the northern end of Iowa 25." and "At Carroll it intersects US 71 on the western side of the city." But this one seems necessary: "Continuing east, the highway goes through the town of Glidden and passes to the north of Ralston, west of the Greene County line." Partly a matter of taste, I suppose.
 * I guess I was taught to always include the formulaic comma. –Fredddie™
 * 1) Do we really need links for "dirt road", "paving", "expressway", and "bypass"? I'd have thought these were common as rocks for English-speakers.
 * 2) I've enlarged a few of the images a little: 240px is often better nowadays than the 220 default. Tony  (talk)  09:57, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have my default image size at 250px, but I suppose I can't assume everyone else has done the same. –Fredddie™ 12:55, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I just noticed something myself, and I'd like clarification from anyone. For the sake of subject-verb agreement, are concurrencies considered an it (one road) or a they (two routes)? Examples: "East of I-380, US 30 / US 151 serves..." and "...as US 30 / US 67 turn..." Both are in the text of the article, and I'd like to be consistent. –Fredddie™ 12:55, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Whenever I've written about them, I've used either as a matter of the context. In both cases you've quoted, I'd use the singular (it's a compound name for a single piece of road), but I've also used "The two highways come together and turn..." or "The two roads merge to run along...". I hope this helps.  Imzadi 1979  →   13:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Looking over it again, I think it reads better if "US 30 / US 67" is treated as a they. –Fredddie™ 21:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.