Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Vanilla Ice/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 21:37, 20 April 2010.

Vanilla Ice

 * Nominator(s): Sugar Bear (talk) 21:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

This biography passed as a GA in May 2009. Article is stable, with no edit wars. Biography is well researched and meets WP:NPOV guidelines. Sources are excellent, and plentiful. Seems to be FA quality to me. Sugar Bear (talk) 21:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comments. Links to http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PEOPLE_VANILLA_ICE?SITE=NVREN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT, http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/ent/stories/DN-vanillaice_0615gl.ART0.State.Edition1.cdad80.html, and http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25254291-2902,00.html are dead. Ucucha 22:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Removed deadlinked news articles. (Sugar Bear (talk) 23:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC))
 * OK. Ucucha 23:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments - I'll make straightforward prose fixes as I go, and please correct me if I change the meaning. Will post queries below. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Robert Matthew Van Winkle was born on October 31, 1967 in Dallas, Texas. Because of his parents' divorce, he grew up moving between Dallas - huh? We go from birth to pts divorce - need some biographical notes in the middle here. When parents divorced and their names would be a start...


 * SBK paid him to adopt a more commercial, conventional appearance. This led Van Winkle to later regret his business agreements with SBK - this begs the question - how did his appearance and music (?) change and why did he regret it...


 * Following the success of "Ice Ice Baby",.... - this paragraph, where Suge Knight threatens Vanilla Ice just seems to end midstory. What happened? nothing?

Charles makes some good points below - I'll revisit after they are addressed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:50, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Review by Charles Edward


 * General
 * Query: "The lyrics describe a drive-by shooting and praise Van Winkle's rhyming skills" - Do I understand this right: in the lyrics he praises his own rhyming skills? Its a bit confusing as this is referring to him in the third person, it think it should probably be first person in this instance.
 * "After Earthquake beat up D-Shay, it was determined that D-Shay would not be able to work with Van Winkle, and Earthquake became Van Winkle's DJ" - Did Earthquake get into a physical fight with D-Shay? I'd suggest replacing "beat up" with "assaulted". And "determined" by who?
 * "In 1987, Van Winkle met Tommy Quon at the Dallas night club City Lights, which Quon owned.[8] Because Van Winkle had parked in front of the club's marquee, Quon asked him to move the car, but Van Winkle refused, stating that he intended to enter a talent contest, and did not want his car to be stolen." - this does not seem to have any particular relevance. Did it lead to something noteworthy? I'd suggest removing it if not, or adding the punch line if it did.
 * "Ice Ice Baby" has been credited for helping diversify hip hop by introducing it to a mainstream, white audience." - credited by who? I'd suggest attributing it in the sentence
 * "In 1999, the music video for "Ice Ice Baby" was "retired" on the MTV special 25 Lame, in which Van Winkle himself appeared to destroy the video's master tape. When Van Winkle was given a baseball bat, he ended up destroying the show's set." - I am a little confused about this. He "appeared to destroy the video" - did he actually destroy it, or only appear to? Secondly, when they gave him the bat, did he go around beating down their set on purpose? Was this part of the show, or did he loose it because they hated his video? Its not really clear if this was for comic effect, or just what was going on.
 * "In May 2000, Van Winkle made an appearance at a wrestling match promoted by Juggalo Championship Wrestling, then known as Juggalo Championshit Wrestling, filling in for Insane Clown Posse member Joseph Utsler, who had been injured during a match." - a little confused again, did he show up there to wrestle or rap\sing? Its not perfectly clear.
 * "In October 2000, it was announced that Van Winkle's next album would be titled Skabz, and that Chuck D was confirmed to appear on the album.", announced by who?
 * "In November 2004, Van Winkle's pet wallaroo, Bucky, and pet goat, Pancho, escaped from his Port St. Lucie, Florida home. After wandering around local streets for over a week, the animals were caught and returned to Van Winkle. He had to pay a $220 fine for expired pet tags and an undisclosed fine for the escape of the animals." - This does not seem particularly noteworthy. Did it have some profound emotional effect on him or receive local media coverage, or something of that nature? Its not obvious why this is important to know, I suggest adding why it is noteworthy or removing it.
 * Perhaps in the lead it should mention his history of domestic violence and a brief explanation of his fall from fame, such as it was.
 * MOS
 * "It was reported that Insane Clown Posse would make an appearance on Van Winkle's next album, tentatively titled Bomb Tha System.", avoid using "It was reported", maybe say exactly to made the report like . "X magazine said..". See MOS:Reportedly
 * "In 1997, Van Winkle married Laura, whom he had met at a party", what is her last (maiden) name, and what day were they married?
 * The External link needs access dates.
 * Prose
 * "Further albums by Van Winkle, including Hard to Swallow, Bi-Polar and Platinum Underground, featured a less mainstream rock-oriented sound, and did not chart." - maybe better as - "Later albums by Van Winkle, including Hard to Swallow, Bi-Polar  and Platinum Underground, had a less mainstream rock-oriented sound, and did not chart."
 * "According to Van Winkle, SBK paid him to adopt a more commercial, conventional appearance. Van Winkle later regretted his business agreements with SBK." - Better as - "According to Van Winkle, SBK paid him to adopt a more commercial, conventional appearance. This led Van Winkle to later regretted his business agreements with SBK."
 * "In 1991, 3rd Bass released a single called "Pop Goes the Weasel", comparing Van Winkle unfavorably to Elvis Presley." - maybe better as "In 1991, 3rd Bass  released a single called "Pop Goes the Weasel", and in the lyrics comparing Van Winkle unfavorably to Elvis Presley."
 * "By 1994, Van Winkle became isolated from the public spotlight, and had grown dreadlocks and began smoking cannabis." - this reads a little funny to me. I'd suggest rephrasing it. "isolated from the public spotlight" doesn't really make clear sense. Maybe "removed from the public spotlight", or "received less publicity".
 * "During periods of heavy drug use, Van Winkle received many tattoos from artist acquaintances. According to Van Winkle, "That was in my binge days. I didn't even realize how many I was getting"" - this doesn't flow very well. Perhaps "During periods of heavy drug use, Van Winkle received many tattoos from artist  acquaintances. According to Van Winkle, he "was in [his] binge days. [He] didn't even realize how many [he] was getting". Or "During periods of heavy drug use, Van Winkle received many tattoos from artist  acquaintances. Van Winkle, "[I] was in my binge days. I didn't even realize how many I was getting"
 * "Van Winkle expressed an interest in performing hip hop-influenced rock music, but found that the band was unable to produce the sound which he was looking for" - don't need the "which"
 * "According to Robinson, others had attempted to persuade him not to work with Van Winkle, feeling that it might hurt his reputation. Encouraged by this fear, Robinson agreed to work with Van Winkle." - not flowing well here. Maybe "According to Robinson, others had attempted to discourage from working with Van Winkle,saying it might hurt his reputation. Rather than being dissuaded, their fear encouraged Robinson who agreed to work with Van Winkle."
 * "Van Winkle began following a vegetarian diet."  this seems really out of place, and also perhaps not noteworthy. Why did he do this? When did he start and how long did he continue? Did lead to something noteworthy?
 * Citations needed
 * "On April 10, 2008, Van Winkle was arrested in Palm Beach County on a battery charge for allegedly kicking and hitting Laura."
 * "In court, the couple's neighbor, Frank Morales, stated that it was merely a verbal argument."
 * "Current" in section "Band Members" needs a citation
 * "Filmography" section needs a citation
 * References
 * What makes http://www.wargs.com/other/vanwinkle.html a Reliable source
 * This is a genealogical database, discussing the ancestry of many people, including Van Winkle. (Sugar Bear (talk) 00:28, 20 April 2010 (UTC))
 * This whole site is the work of a single person. Is he an expert on geneology? The work is entirely self published, and would fail WP:RS under that alone, unless it can be shown the author is authoritative on the subject he is writing of. &mdash;Charles Edward (Talk 03:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * What makes http://www.roctober.com/roctober/greatness/vanilla.html a reliable source?
 * This is an interview with the subject of the article. (Sugar Bear (talk) 00:28, 20 April 2010 (UTC))
 * I cannot determine from this site who the publishers are, the authors, etc. There is no clear evidence that the site is anything more than a blog. &mdash;Charles Edward (Talk 03:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * What makes http://www.live-metal.net/features_interviews_vanillaice a reliable source?
 * This is an interview with the subject of the article. (Sugar Bear (talk) 00:28, 20 April 2010 (UTC))
 * To quote the sites about page, the site is authored by "some dudes who love metal", its not clear how they are an authority on the subjects they are writing of, other than being fans of it. &mdash;Charles Edward (Talk 03:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I added some new sources and removed the above sources. (Sugar Bear (talk) 21:57, 20 April 2010 (UTC))
 * Images check out
 * ALT text NOT present
 * References look good

Oppose for now. The prose is my primary concern, its pretty rough in places, has spots where it suddenly shifts topics, then bounces back, which makes it a bit hard to follow a narrative. I pointed out the instances I noticed in my first read through. Something you may consider is separating out some of his personal life information and combining it into its own section, running parallel to his professional career, or adding enough personal life information to make full paragraphs out of them; either option would take most of the choppiness out of the text.

Another item that feels like it is missing is the limited information on his personal life - I am not intimately familiar with the topic, but did he have siblings, if so mention a number? The only mention of his children is where he is was banned from seeing them; how many are there? are they by Laura? Ages and names may be appropriate if they are adults. Did he become estranged from his father, if so mention it? What is his financial situation, did he earn a substantial income from his music? There is little or no mention of his legacy (he is largely considered a joke nowadays, right?) Who were his musical influences? There seems to be a significant body of missing information expected in a biography of this nature, nothing extensive, just many little things.

I understand given his low profile, there is probably no biography of his life written which can be used as good source for a full complete article, but the article could really benefit from such a source if one exists. As it is now, the article is sourced almost exclusively from news stories (which tend to be less than comprehensive) and short online bios.

Overall the article is well researched and well referenced. Good job on it so far! Keep up the good work, and if you can resolve the prose issues I've raised, I'd be glad to change to support. &mdash;Charles Edward (Talk 17:53, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, Van Winkle's influences are discussed. It refers to Van Winkle being influenced by underground music, hip hop, Funkadelic, Rick James and Parliament. I moved the comments on Van Winkle's legacy to the final section. (Sugar Bear (talk) 00:28, 20 April 2010 (UTC))


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.