Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Vernon Sturdee/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:GrahamColm 10:01, 28 July 2013 (UTC).

Vernon Sturdee

 * Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:48, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Not the British admiral, but the Australian general. This article continues the series on Command in the South West Pacific. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:48, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Hawkeye7. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Comments by Retrolord


 * 1) "Now one of the Army's" Would it be possible to change now to something else? It seems a bit confusing, and almost sounds like you are saying this still applies today in 2013.
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Could we switch the two pictures in the Island campaigns section? Then they would be nearer to the relevant info
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Let me know,  ★ ★ RetroLord★ ★  07:02, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done Nikkimaria (talk) 15:45, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Quotes of >40 words should be either blockquoted or shortened (Ex. end of Between the wars)
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * FN9: publisher? Also, this and similar should use endashes in title.
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * More on sources: While it doesn't affect my support below, I don't think it's considered necessary to include OCLC when you have the ISBN, nor to use retrieval dates for references that are simply scans of published books like the official histories. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:06, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Support Comments: Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:58, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no mention of anything in the lead about the inter-war period.
 * As a rank and thus not a proper noun, shouldn't admiral of the fleet be decapitalised?
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * According to AWM records, the London Gazette and his digitalised service record, Alfred Hobart Sturdee was appointed a Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George and Mentioned in Despatches a further few times during the First World War. You may want to add that in.
 * I cannot see that. Do you have a reference? Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * See his service record pages 17-20. It would appear the London Gazette incorrectly identified him as "Albert Hobart Sturdee", which the AWM subsequently recorded. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:04, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh. That explains it. Added. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:48, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * From my understanding, no man's land should be decapitalised.
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Are any specifics available about his staff service on GHQ?
 * The only thing I have is that he worked in the Engineering Section. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Did Sturdee attempt to promote alternate policy to the Singapore strategy? Or attempt to alter such policy?
 * No. Officers that did, like Henry Douglas Wynter, were relieved. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Was the knighthood Sturdee was recommended for reduced to a mention due to the Labor Government's policy of not awarding knighthoods? Or another reason, if known?
 * Sort of. The ALP ban on knighthoods was not binding on the current Chifley government, but it was reluctant to award them. Forde put it to Cabinet, which decided that the 1944-45 campaigns were not important enough to warrant knighthoods. The have the Cabinet documents here somewhere. They were pretty mean-spirited, and even today would upset a few veterans. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:04, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "Sturdee became Acting Commander in Chief" - I think "acting" in this instance should be decapitalised.
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Are there any more details available on Sturdee's personal life, particularly between the wars and during retirement?
 * No, and the reason is in the last paragraph. Someone is going to have to go down and talk to his family. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I assumed as much, but thought I would ask anyway. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:04, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there any information on Sturdee's performance in the Second World War or his service as Chief of the General Staff post-war? As in, reception from historians?
 * The quote on the bottom paragraph of the East Indies campaign section sums up most of it. Do you want something on the final campaigns? Not nearly enough has been written about them. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If you find anything you can add, that would be excellent. If not, than that isn't much of an issue. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:04, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * My concerns have been addressed and I am confident that the article meets the FA criteria, so am happy to support. This is a well written, referenced and comprehensive article on a prominent Australian general. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 15:02, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Comments - Dank (push to talk)
 * "At Aitape, Stevens was tasked with pushing the Japanese back far enough to protect the airfields; but the 6th Division might be required for use elsewhere.": I'm not entirely clear what this is saying.
 * Added a bit more to try and make it clearer. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Sturdee therefore had to conduct three widely separated campaigns, the Aitape-Wewak campaign, the New Britain campaign and the Bougainville Campaign, juggling a number of contradictory requirements, and doing so with limited resources.": I think WP:Checklist is relevant to the "therefore", and the repetition is a little bit of a problem. You might try: Juggling contradictory requirements and limited resources, Sturdee had to conduct three widely separated campaigns: Aitape-Wewak, New Britain and Bougainville. - Dank (push to talk) 17:05, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with that. It violates the Commonwealth Style Guide which specifically says not to do that. ("His car ran off the road, and he was killed." [He was set upon by a gang of bikies and clubbed to death]) And in this case, we really do know what they were thinking, because Blamey, Sturdee and Savige took extraordinary effort to lay down their reasoning in writing. Re-phrased as suggested. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Post war": Post-war, and headings should be nouns or noun phrases.
 * Changed to "later life: Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "This laid the foundations": What, exactly, laid the foundations? I believe WP:Checklist is relevant here too ... that is, when one thing leads to another, it's better to be specific and to avoid saying that a set of things led to something else.
 * Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "on a cadre basis": "cadre" is a bit overloaded with completely different meanings in different contexts. It might work, but consider using another word.
 * I had not realised this. In the Australian Army, we only use cadre in its original form, meaning "complement of commissioned officers of a regiment or the permanent skeleton establishment of a unit, around which the unit could be built if needed". I considered "skeleton", then decided to delete the phrase. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Support on prose per new standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 17:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Support: I made a few minor tweaks, and am now happy this article meets the criteria. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:46, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Prose comments -- at the risk of piling on MilHist reviews, I decided to recuse myself from delegate duties here and copyedit, since I didn't get a chance to do so at A-Class; outstanding points: Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:46, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Charles Merrett, a prominent businessman and Militia officer. Her half-brother, Colonel Harry Perrin, was another prominent Militia officer -- can we avoid one of the "prominent"s?.
 * Deleted the second one. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think we generally need to link countries, e.g. Egypt, France. Obsolete forms, e.g. Japan, are fine.
 * Unlinked. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think "ironically" is a word to avoid, but OTOH it does seem appropriate where you use it...
 * REmoved. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sturdee replaced him with a staff officer from Army Headquarters who volunteered for the position, well aware of the odds -- I assume it was the staff officer, rather than Sturdee, who was aware of the odds; if so perhaps Sturdee replaced him with a staff officer from Army Headquarters who volunteered for the position despite being well aware of the odds might be clearer.
 * Obviously Sturdee also knew. I have a bad habit of writing these ambiguous sentences where both possible interpretations are true. It's bad because it makes it hard for the users to paraphrase the Wikipedia. Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * In February 1942, on advice from Lavarack that the Dutch East Indies would soon fall, Sturdee urged the Australian government that its 17,800 troops returning from the Middle East, originally bound for Java, be diverted to Australia, from which an offensive could be launched with American assistance, instead of to Burma. -- whew, almost ran out of breath there, suggest splitting or trimming.
 * Must have been channelling Bean when I wrote that. Broke up the sentence. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * His headquarters was initially located in Queensland, but on 2 October 1944 it opened at Lae -- have to admit I've never heard of an HQ "opening"; could we just say "transferred" or something?
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * After highlighting what Sturdee had to do with his limited resources, the Japanese surrender seems to come quite quickly and easily. Can we briefly say something -- say between the 18 July 1945 quote and the surrender on 6 Sept -- about the results of the campaigns?
 * Added. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Image check -- all pre-1946 and marked PD-Australia and PD-1996 except File:Military Board 1947.jpg, which is 1947 and marked PD-Australia only. As it's from the Australian War Memorial I think we'd normally just add a tag to it. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:06, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for taking time to review. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:02, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Support on prose, coverage, structure, referencing and supporting materials. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:06, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Graham Colm (talk) 15:30, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.