Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Vikos–Aoös National Park/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 00:04, 24 November 2010.

Vikos–Aoös National Park

 * Nominator(s): Alexikoua (talk) 22:02, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I've worked a lot on this: The article has been also at Peer review and there were serious objections, while some minor issues were fixed. All the aspects are covered here as far as information goes and I believe this article is well referenced, informative and encyclopedic.Alexikoua (talk) 22:02, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * No dab links, but a 2 link errors - link to is dying and  times out. -- Pres  N  23:08, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed the first link and removed the second (the specific part is also referenced by another work from the same authors).Alexikoua (talk) 23:27, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Sources comments: Sources and citations generally fine; just a few nitpicks:-
 * "Natura 2008" should be in alphabetical sequence in the Sources, or it's difficult to find
 * Page ranges should have dashes not hyphens
 * Ref 28 lacks retrieval date.

Brianboulton (talk) 00:43, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, fixed.Alexikoua (talk) 20:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Drive-by comment - Check out WP:caption; incomplete sentences (as most captions are in this article) don't need periods. I'll come back later for a full review. (... and don't use the ✅ template as above, they increase FAC page loading times.) Sasata (talk) 21:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

File:Greece_location_map.svg should be captioned along the lines of the map in 1949_Ambato_earthquake, otherwise fine Fasach Nua (talk) 21:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Done. Caption issues have been fixed per above suggestions.Alexikoua (talk) 20:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Initial overview, 1(b) (geology)/1(a):
 * 1b (topic specific) concern: Geology is given short shrift in this article. For a park in a clearly spectacular geological setting, this should have much more detail, and surely should cite more of the relevant scientific literature (1(c) issue). Paschos, P.; Nikolaou, E.,; Papanikos, D. (2004) is the only geology-related reference I see, and it is citing one date and a few geographic features.
 * I would expect detail that covers the geologic formations in the area, and answers to questions such as:
 * is it entirely on Mid Jurassic limestone/dolomite?
 * Are the fossils notable? What glaciations are recorded through deposits such as moraines in the Park?
 * "The retreat of the glaciers": when and how far?
 * Is there remnant glaciation on the mountains?
 * How long has the karst been developing?
 * Are the cave networks well understood, and do they also house distinct and significant biota?

Iridia (talk) 00:51, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 1a concerns: prose needs considerable smoothing. Sample examples follow (representative of these concerns):
 * "Moreover, Vikos–Aoös National Park hosts one of the most complete spectra of animal species"
 * "The age of the compact dolomite rocks that lie on the bottom of the gorge has been determined by means of sea fossils found inside them and has been dated back to the Early Jurassic period"
 * "is considered among the five or six areas in Greece with the richest fauna characteristic of mountain and forest ecosystems"
 * It would be nice to see fewer uses of 'moreover'; I saw two in one section at times.
 * Overlinking: eg. horses, forest, grazing, tourism, etc need to go.


 * The geologic importance of the area is now well covered: two+1/2 paragraphs added in 'Vikos G.' and Tymfi' sections (+3 geologic references) that contain details per above points (age of the rock formations, notability of the fossils in Aoos bed, retreat of glaciers, period of glaciation, types of remnant glaciations, karst development, about the caves according to the available material they are still studied without any sign of biota so far). Copy edit job has been also perfomed on several parts including the above suggestions.Alexikoua (talk) 20:45, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments - 1st pass: Copyedit/proofreading (most of which should have been done prior to FAC). Will check sources later. Sasata (talk) 17:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * "located 30 kilometers north" need to give imperial convert per other instances
 * not sure if the following links are necessary in the lead: cave, canyon, rafting, canoe-kayaking, hiking, mountain biking
 * there a mix of both British and American English in the text: metres, supervised, centre vs. characterized, specialized, favor
 * "During the last decades"
 * "The landscape of the 20 km (12 mi) long gorge" should be hyphenated, as the number is being used as an adjective. Simply add the parameter adj=on to the conversion template.
 * "(660 ft)-700 metres" endash, not hyphen
 * "limestone derived" needs hyphen
 * "The final phase of glacial activity occurred between marine isotope stages 5d and 2" do not know what these numbers mean, and clicking the linked article did not help
 * link carbonate
 * "another gorge that is 10 km long." needs convert
 * "great number of secondary gullies and currents.[11] while the southern part" comma, I presume
 * "limestone weathering" hyphen
 * "gorge date back to the Early Jurassic period"
 * Aoos Gorge image caption does not need fullstop
 * "a formation which was created after" which->that
 * "Its maximum depth is 4.95 m while its surface covers 1 ha." converts
 * "A number of vertical caves and precipices, are found in the area" no comma
 * "These are being studied and explored by caving enthusiasts, while some of them bear names inspired from mythology,"the caving enthusiasts have mythological names?
 * "and has since then been studied by a large number of expeditions." expeditions don't study
 * link escarpment
 * "well developed" hyphen
 * "850 m above sea level" convert
 * "additional 9 near the borders" write out the number in full if less than ten, says MOS
 * "were connected by a very good system of paths" is the "very good" necessary?
 * "The economic affluence of Zagori's past is still reflected in the admirable architecture" admirable sounds POV… leave it out?
 * In the image caption "The village of Monodendri, in dense vegetation and Vikos Gorge in the background" the way it is worded, it sounds like the village is in the Gorge
 * 'being high during the winter months" avoid the noun + ing (see here)
 * "drought period of 2 to 3 months in summer." numbers in full
 * "mean minimum annual temperature, exceeds 40 C." remove comma, add convert temp to Fahrenheit. Convert needed a couple of sentences later as well.
 * "up to an elevation of about 1500 meters." needs convert, and the Brit Eng metres was used previously. Same applies a couple of sentences later. Would prefer if this section was written in paragraph style rather than point form.
 * don;t think species needs to be linked, but maybe wildflowers should be
 * "5,8%" period, not comma
 * why is taxa italicized? Similarly, taxon is italicized a paragraph later (and linked, although it should be linked at 1st occurrence)
 * "The park's forests are abundant in species associated with the cool local climate, such as Ulmus glabra, Campanula trachelium, Aesculus hippocastanum and Tilia platyphyllos." Consider giving the common names and piping links to the scientific ones, or at the very least, tell us that they are trees.
 * link biologically active
 * "local plants and herds is exhibited in the local natural museum" herbs; what is a "natural museum"?
 * "use the area the whole year around ."
 * "(Rupicapra rupicapra balcanica)" italics
 * "Numerous fish, such as brown trout, roach, and barbel" fish->fishes (since several species are being referred to
 * "A total of 121 bird species has been observed" has -> have
 * "twenty six" hyphen
 * "The bird communities are considered among the most complete in Greece; important species include" how are "important" defined?
 * "Regarding invertebrates species, the forests, due to their structural complexity and the co-existence of various small biotopes, i.e. streams, ponds, forest openings, rocky sites, dead trees, old pollards, coppices, support a very diverse fauna, especially at the various ecotones, including often very specialized species." long sentence that would benefit from splitting
 * "Vipera ursine" italics; taxon need not be linked again
 * "while the land provided mainly for pastoralism and firewood for the local needs." sentence structure seems a bit awkward to me
 * "so called" hyphen
 * "while abandonment of the traditional rural economy and the land use system has affected the cultural landscape." unclear: was the land use system also abandoned?
 * the hikers walking caption does not need fullstop
 * "… dangers to the park include land erosion, landslides, wildfires which threaten the local flora and fauna." missing "and"
 * "An evolution analysis has begun by taking an as detailed as possible picture of the territory covering at least the following items:" awkward
 * link orography
 * why is Geographic Information System capitalized?
 * "Specific objectives of ecotourism development include the reviving of traditional activities such as small-scale farming and stock-raising,[57] as well as the establishment of a 'network of communities of chamois biotopes'." remove passive voice (i.e. the reviving of -> reviving; the establishment of ->establishing
 * "which lasts approximately 6–7 hours" -> "six to seven"
 * " On the other hand, several viewpoint are accessible only on foot," hiking was mentioned in the previous sentence, which I assume is by foot, so the contrast isn't needed here


 * I gave the article a thorough copyedit this morning, changing all the usage to US English, and so on. Hope it's ok now. Athenean (talk) 21:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasata (talk • contribs) 06:08, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * please ensure that there's nothing in the lead not mentioned in the article text. For example, the following aren't in the article body: no mention of the 100,000 visitors/year; core of the park being 3,400 hectares; 1800 species of flora, etc. Once that's done, you can probably remove citations for these facts from the lead, as they will be cited later. See WP:Lead for more info. Sasata (talk) 05:28, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * watch out when using the convert templates that you don't introduce more significant figures than was intended by the source. For example, the article says "... the gorge measures 900 m (2,953 ft) deep and 1,100 m (3,609 ft) wide"; the source says "at one point measures 2950 feet (900 metres) deep and 3600 feet (1100 metres) wide". This can be fixed by using the "sigfig=" parameter in template:convert. Should check usage throughout the article. Sasata (talk) 05:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Article needs an intervention: issues with WP:Copyvio and WP:Close paraphrasing
 * article: "Steep slopes and precipitous rocky cliffs dominate in the middle and higher zones respectively. Numerous gullies dissect both sides of the gorge and the weathering action of water down its walls creates extended screes." Source: "Steep slopes and precipitous rock cliffs dominate at the middle and higher zones respectively. Numerous gullies dissect both sides of the gorge and the movement of water detaching various rocky materials creates extended screes." (page 11 of the source, not the cited page 21)
 * article: "Studies on the non-vascular flora recorded the presence of about 150 moss species in the area of the national park, including one newly described taxon." source: "Studies on the non-vascular flora recorded the presence of about 150 moss species in the area of Vikos including one newly described taxon."
 * article: "The local tourism industry has been favored by national and European funds and provides modest accommodation and tourism services, with respect to the local tradition and culture." source: "The local private tourism industry has been favored by national and European funds and provides nowadays modest accommodation and high quality tourism services with respect to the local tradition and culture". I stopped looking after this third instance.
 * I also found several instances where statements were not backed up by cited source.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.