Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/WarCry (band)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 09:38, 23 August 2008.

WarCry (band)

 * Nominator(s):   Rockk3r       Spit it Out! 

I'm nominating this article for featured article because it is very professional and I think it deserves to be a FA. It's well sourced with the citations for verification. It is the history of a power metal band, where appears the most important events done since the creation on 2001.  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  21:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - Very, very sketchy prose. Just a few examples from the lead: Frankly, this article couldn't pass GA with the current level of prose, unless a reviewer with extremely low standards reviewed it. I strongly recommend this FAC be withdrawn. Nousernamesleft (talk) 02:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Despite being relatively new, they have become one of Spain's most successful and famous heavy metal acts," - this has three inline citations in a reference-free lead. Is it really that controversial?
 * "Founded when vocalist Víctor García and drummer Alberto Ardines were ejected from Avalanch." - I would expect better of a candidate than to have a fragment as the second sentence.
 * "Pablo García and Fernando Mon appeared just as guest guitarists on the debut album, but became full-time members on 2002 along with keyboardist Manuel Ramil and bassist Alvaro Jardón, leaving this last one at the end of 2003." - highly confusing sentence. Leaving what last one? Also, "just" -> "only".
 * "Ardines and Mon left on 2007" - Left on 2007?
 * "Ramil was expelled in early 2008, due to the distance between his home and the rest of the members." - Apostrophe after "members", and he was expelled for being too far away?
 * Enormous amount contractions and redundancies.

Comment - Although I choose not to support or oppose candidates, I do have feedback that I hope is useful. On my initial scan through the article I corrected 17 misspelled words and more remain. Many sentences exhibit poor or incorrect grammar; awkward phrasing is common. Unfortunately, the article currently fails even the lesser Good Article criteria of well written, i.e. that "prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct". As is, the article is badly in need of cleanup before I would expect to see consensus support for Featured Article status. Consider withdrawing the nomination for now and enlisting the help of one or more experienced copyeditors to better present the information you have carefully collected. -- Michael Devore (talk) 02:25, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Struck by Wafulz. You can't support your own nomination.-Wafulz (talk) 13:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You can support your own nomination if you are not a significant contributor; Rockk3r is the main contributor to this article. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 14:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you (Nousernamesleft) had read the whole article, would have understood that distance was the cause of Ramil being expelled. What do you suggest? He was kicked out?
 * "Founded when vocalist Víctor García and drummer Alberto Ardines were ejected from Avalanch." - I would expect better of a candidate than to have a fragment as the second sentence. What do you really mean?
 * It's a sentence fragment - it has no subject.-Wafulz (talk) 13:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Pablo García and Fernando Mon appeared just as guest guitarists on the debut album, but became full-time members on 2002 along with keyboardist Manuel Ramil and bassist Alvaro Jardón, leaving this last one at the end of 2003." - highly confusing sentence. Leaving what last one? I wrote leaving this last one referring of course to the last member mentioned "Jardon" not to repeat his name twice in the same sentence.   Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  02:52, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The point of the article is not for you to understand it, it's for readers to understand it. Nousernamesleft (talk) 20:31, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The grammar is very poor and confusing. I suggest you find someone willing to copyedit it. There are numerous basic grammar errors (contractions, sentence fragments, phrases like "an hoax", missing articles in sentences), tons of redundancy ("due to the fact that" instead of "because"), run-on sentences, confusing prose ("pointed on"). -Wafulz (talk) 13:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * What makes the following sources reliable?
 * http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=36543#7150 and anything at this site.
 * http://www.dailypeloton.com/
 * http://www.metal-observer.com/home.php?lid=1
 * http://www.metalstorm.ee/home/index.php
 * all non-English language sources should state their language in the reference.
 * http://www.reuxmagazine.net/esp/xpcial_avalanch.php deadlinks
 * You're listing a lot of reviews that seem to come from magazines, but you are linking to them on the bands site, I believe. You should use the review direct from the magazine itself.
 * Although I can't read Spanish, it appears that a number of your Spanish language sources are forum postings. Those aren't considered reliable sources.
 * While your references give the minimum amount of bibliographical information required, they are lacking any other information, even when it might be known. If the site gives an author, that should be listed.
 * Note this isn't an exhaustive list of sourcing issues, mainly because someone who reads Spanish needs to read the Spanish language sources and evaluate them.
 * I was unable to evaluate the non-English sources. The links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * http://warcry.as/english/inicio.htm appears to be their official website, and an English version is available, so that should be used in place of Spanish. Many of the Spanish-language posts are forum posts; all non-English sources should be identified by adding the language icon ) inside the ref tag, before the ref.  I will re-check the Spanish-language sourcing once they are identified.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 14:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Citations need a lot of work and Wiki should never knowingly link to a copyright violation: . Also, the article has incorrectly formatted dates throughout; it uses US-style dates rather than international style date formatting as used in Spain.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments on images and sound files I hope these suggestions are helpful. Awadewit (talk) 15:21, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:WarCry live at Viña Rock 2008.jpg - Is the uploader the same as the author of the image? If so, that should be made explicit in the image description.
 * All of the sound files need to include a reason why it is important to include that particular excerpt. There are quite a few, so we need very specific rationales here. Why do we need each and every clip? Since I don't know anything about this band or this type of music, I am going to need some help analyzing the strength of these claims.
 * I am not convinced that we need three fair use images of the band. I realize that the makeup of the band has changed over time, but three images is starting to become excessive. I would select either the earliest or the most recent image.
 * Image:Rafa Yugueros.jpg - Could we list the author of the image in the description instead of just "self-taken"?


 * I'm so sorry guys that I made you all go through this. I agree with you, and don't worry I'll withdraw the article from the list of FAC, I'm feeling very embarrassed after reading the opinions of wikipedians who are actually way more professional than me. The article seemed perfect to me but it wasn't. I just want to ask you all a favor, and hope someone could be willing to help me... I would like to find copy editors to tell me what's wrong on the page and needs to be fixed up, to make it more professional, to make sure there's nothing wrong or any copy violations... well pretty much anything about the page, and then when the article meets the requirements to be a FA I'll put a second nomination. Sorry again and please if anyone knows someone who could help me I'd really apprecciate it.

PD: When I say someone to help me it doesn't mean that this person needs to fix the article, but just let me know what needs to be fixed and I myself will do it the correct way. Thanks.  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  04:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * the sourcing issues covered above should help you get started on that concern. As for the other parts of your request, someone else will have to answer, sorry! Ealdgyth - Talk 04:20, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries, yes I was guiding myself by the comments above, and still waiting for a little hlep :). Thanks anyway  Rockk3r       Spit it Out!  05:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)s.


 * Rock3r, I'll withdraw it now for you, and hope to see you back soon. One way to find help is to read and follow the tips at WP:FCDW/March 17, 2008 to locate peer review volunteers and invite them to a peer review to comment. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 09:35, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.