Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Western yellow robin/archive1

Western yellow robin

 * Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:55, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

This article is about a cute little bird from southern Australia. I have scoured sources and reckon it's as comprehensive as it can be for the lay reader. Have a look and let me know what to fix. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:55, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

FunkMonk

 * I'll have a look soon. First, I see some duplinks. FunkMonk (talk) 09:04, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I know the images are a bit samey, but maybe this could be added anyway somewhere, since it is much higher res than the one in the taxobox from a somewhat similar angle? FunkMonk (talk) 09:04, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I put in taxobox as it is pointing to centre of page Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "erected by Swainson" Spell out and link name.
 * added and linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:06, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "The earliest records of the species" From when?
 * changed to "Gould reported" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "in the first collection of local fauna" Date?
 * 1830s - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Seems odd now that only one person is presented with nationality and occupation.
 * an oversight...fixing.. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Eastern yellow robin (Eopsaltria australis) is linked and given scientific name twice.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "Bird taxonomist Richard Schodde did not" Date?
 * 1999 - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:12, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "Two analyses of mitochondrial and nuclear DNA" Dates?
 * 2009 and 2011 - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:51, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "revealed that the divergence between" Any estimate as to when it happened?
 * neither paper suggests date ranges Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:57, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "rosinae" Meaning?
 * found and added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "families Eupetidae (Rail-babbler), Chaetopidae (Rockjumper) and Picathartidae (Rockfowl)" Why are all the common names capitalised?
 * accident - tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:06, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "The earliest recorded name is b"am-boore—reported by John Gilbert" When?
 * 1839, but this fact has drifted and I can fix later. ~ cygnis insignis 17:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * is 1840 - added now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:27, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * 


 * I wonder what the thoughts behind describing subspecies differences and differences in range under taxonomy, I'd imagine readers looking for such info under description and distribution sections? In fact, some of the info from taxonomy seems to be duplicated under description.
 * have moved to description now and removed reduplication. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:19, 6 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I guess again coloration should be colouration?
 * Coloration is correct, as we have previously discussed. ~ cygnis insignis 17:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "In Western Australia, it is found south and west of an imaginary line between Kalbarri and Norseman" What does this line divide, the subspecies? Or between these named areas? "Imaginary" makes this a bit confusing...
 * This last point seems to have been overlooked? FunkMonk (talk) 09:46, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * ? I can support once this is addressed. FunkMonk (talk) 14:03, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * the species as a whole. Changed to name from "it". I thought it was unambiguous given its place in the paragraph....? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:47, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, I think the problem is that one would expect info on where the different subspecies can be found under distribution rather than under taxonomy. Anything that could be done about this? FunkMonk (talk) 09:53, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, I did this. Is it worth adding a note that Mathews controversially named a large number of taxa later not found to be distinct (he was a splitter supreme), but this one is? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:27, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * For someone interested in that kind of stuff, I'd say yes. FunkMonk (talk) 20:58, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, I added a footnote. Probably best to add to lots of Australian bird articles Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:32, 20 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "in dryer" Drier? English isn't my first language, but seems "dryer" refers strictly to the machine...
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:27, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "and are 18-22 mm long by 15-16 mm wide" Convert?
 * oppose ~ cygnis insignis 17:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I removed it already this FAC due to suggestion below - the range is so narrow in inches to be meaningless Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:20, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "in the Australasian robin family Petroicidae" Only stated in intro.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:27, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Not a big deal, but the intro seems to have a different order than the article body, since you give info on its naming last instead of first.
 * I was in two minds, but after rejigging I am happier with the new order Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:33, 6 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Support - nice article, hope we'll get some photos of eggs and such one day. FunkMonk (talk) 13:56, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Aa77zz
Initial comments
 * Who was John Gould? (English ornithologist and bird artist)
 * seemed a bit effusive to add a that...but added some Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Suggest you spell out the protonym.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Possibly mention that the genus Eopsaltria had been erected by Swainson 6 years earlier for what is now the eastern yellow robin
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "Gould had called it "grey-breasted robin" in 1848," I suggest you cite Gould here - he includes a beautiful plate:
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:14, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * (I'm not suggesting that you change the year, but Gould's work was issued in 36 parts: Eopsaltria griseogularis was in Part 12 issued in 1843 - the work was completed in 1848. see here)
 * Spell out RAOU (and wlink?)
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:19, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Gould actually wrote B"am-boore for the local name (presumably " indicates stress) ie without an "n" and not bamborn (see link above)
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:19, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * " weight of 20 g (0.7 oz)." - around 20 g?
 * not sure about this as is in same sentence as wingspan and length. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:39, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "The underparts are yellow and sharply delineated from the breast." sharply delineated - this isn't apparent in the photos.
 * "sharply" is what HANZAB says. I changed to "clearly" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:46, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * How do the tarsi differ?
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:54, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "They do not resemble any other species in its range." - plural then singular
 * singularised Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:19, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Note that I don't have easy access to HANZAB - I would need to visit a library. - Aa77zz (talk) 15:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I have a library next to one of my work places...and I've taken photos of all the pages.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:19, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Lead: "The position of the western yellow robin and its Australian relatives" etc - not mentioned in body of article. - Aa77zz (talk) 15:35, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * updated and added to body of text Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:32, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "In tall Jarrah-Marri forest" - these species aren't wlinked until the breeding section.
 * solved by linking to the ecological unit Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:19, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "The maximum age recorded from banding" - this appears misplaced - perhaps better in Breeding.
 * moved Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:32, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "by 15–16 mm (5⁄8–5⁄8 in) wide" - imperial measurements aren't helpful here (I prefer the decimal system)
 * removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:42, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "The eggs are more elongated than those of the eastern yellow robin." Surprising - is there a more recent reference for this?
 * there is no other allusion to this anywhere in HANZAB. Shall I remove it..? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:04, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No opinion - I know little about oology. Note that the ref was muddled - correct link but wrong date and author - now as ref 16. - Aa77zz (talk) 12:23, 6 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Do the helpers feed the young?
 * yes and added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:55, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * How long do the young stay in the nest before they fledge?
 * yes and added Annoyingly not mentioned in HANZAB. HANZAB does say social behaviour not well known Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Are helpers the offspring of the parents from a previous brood?
 * HANZAB doesn't specifically say in this species entry but I have linked "helper" at first instance to Cooperative breeding which pretty much says yes for all species Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:59, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

- Aa77zz (talk) 16:23, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Reference 2: "Gould, Elizabeth; Gould, John (1838). A synopsis of the birds of Australia" - The wiki page on Gould explains that his wife Elizabeth prepared the plates. Elizabeth is not listed as an author on the title page of the volume.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:17, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Reference 4: "Gould, J.; Gilbert, J. (1863). Handbook to The birds of Australia. v.1." - The title page only lists Gould as an author. Gilbert is mentioned in the preface but he died in 1845. The year on the title page is 1865. Worldcat doesn't list an earlier edition.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:17, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I've switch year to 1865. - Aa77zz (talk) 12:23, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

- Aa77zz (talk) 17:16, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Support - all looks good now. Note that I've tweaked some of the refs. - Aa77zz (talk) 12:23, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * thx! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:23, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

image review


 * What is the difference between lime and green?
 * I use it for "yellow-green" but have changed to the more objective "light green" and "dark green" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 7 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:01, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:56, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Support by Nick-D
This article is in great shape. I have only two comments:
 * "Although it is rated as least concern on the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)'s Red List of Threatened Species, it has declined in parts of its range." - can you say over which time period?
 * Annoyingly the source does not specify. I would assume that it coincides with land clearance that has been going on since the early 19th century, however it is not specified in the source at all. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:32, 16 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "The earliest recorded name is b"am-boore" - is it possible to note the names used in any other Aboriginal languages? Nick-D (talk) 10:51, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * the only other candidate is Barngarla, which was the language of the Eyre Peninsula. However it is extinct and being resurrected. Vocabulary is meagre at best and no robins listed... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:05, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Support Thanks for those responses Cas. My comments are now addressed. Nick-D (talk) 08:32, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * thx! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:50, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done


 * FN4 should use pp not p
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:10, 14 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Is FN4 or FN8 the correct formatting of that publisher?
 * latter and aligned Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:10, 14 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in whether initials are spaced
 * spaced now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:10, 14 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in whether books include locations and/or retrieval dates
 * aligned - yes and no (The Jobling ref is actually a webcite). Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:34, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in how you format self-published works
 * aligned Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:34, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * FN29: what kind of source is this? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:22, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * it appears to be part of a book but cannot confirm that. So using cite web format as it is from a reliable and authoritative website 05:34, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Comment from MONGO
Made a couple tweaks and I support promotion to Featured Article. Nice work.--MONGO (talk) 13:56, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * thanks - sorry, had to revert the egg imperial measurements as the consensus was to not have above. They are so small to make inch measurements porblematic... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:30, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 23:13, 30 September 2019 (UTC)