Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This?/archive2

What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This?

 * Nominator(s):  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  10:21, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

This article is about the first film Martin Scorsese created when he was studying at New York University. He went on to create two more films at the NYU. CAPTAIN MEDUSA  talk  10:21, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Image review
 * Schoonmaker image is missing alt. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:55, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Done.  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  11:15, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Spicy

Not doing a full review here - just a few comments on prose and sources:
 * He created it shortly after… His name is not previously mentioned in this paragraph, so this should be "Scorsese created it…"
 * Done.


 * The film was intended to be a horror but later turned out to be a comedy. "a horror" sounds very off to my ears; could be rephrased to something like "Scorsese intended it to be a horror film, but it turned out to be a comedy".
 * Done.


 * He sees a picture of a boat on a lake; though he dislikes it, he buys it because he is a sensitive person. This needs more explanation. I would think an emotionally sensitive person might not want to buy a painting that they find ugly. According to, a salesman persuaded him to buy it.
 * Done.


 * Algernon, also called Harry by his friends is repeated in the "Themes" section as Algernon, known as Harry by his friends; only needs to be said once.
 * Removed.


 * It also uses catholic guilt evident when Algernon begins writing a book of confessions. This could be better phrased (and I’m pretty sure it has to be big-C Catholic, like it is in the linked article). Something like "Themes of Catholic guilt are evident when Algernon begins writing a book of confessions", perhaps.
 * Done.

"'Harry's ego is held in a similar 'grip of deadly fear', and what he is really terrified of is... his own unconscious... it becomes a symbolic battle of wills between Father and Mother... when he falls into the picture he disappears from the face of the earth and ceases to exist as a separate individual. Like Norman Bates in Psycho, Harry becomes 'all Mother' at the end of the film, and possibly, as the analyst says of Norman, 'He only half existed to begin with'."
 * There is some interesting analysis of the film in this source that is not touched on in the "Themes" section:
 * Done.


 * Scorsese had initially intended to become a priest but failed after a year. Failed what? Suggest changing to "failed out of seminary" per.
 * Done.


 * The prose in the reception section is very repetitive. Every sentence is structured as "So-and-so, writing for XYZ, said that “quote goes here”." I feel that this section needs major reworking so that it is a coherent narrative and not just a list of quotes. I understand that this is a nine-minute-long student film and there may not be a large body of critical work to draw from, but you might find it helpful to take a look at the reception sections of other FAs on obscure and short films and try to model the article after those, e.g. Frank's Cock or Tjioeng Wanara. Spicy (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I am quite busy today so I will take a look on this tomorrow. Thanks for the comments .  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  12:21, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, Can you take another look at the article. I believe that I have addressed your comments.  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  11:58, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , thank you for your edits. The reception section reads better, but it still has the problem of seeming like a disjointed collection of quotes. It doesn't really draw connections between the reviews to give the reader an overall picture of the critical reception of the film. There are also some grammatical issues with the new additions, and the "Themes" section is still a bit thin. There are some sources that could be used here but have not been incorporated; these are just a few that I found with a cursory search of JSTOR and the Internet Archive:
 * Blake (2005), Street Smart: The New York of Lumet, Allen, Scorsese, and Lee, pp. 166-7
 * Lourdeaux (1990), Martin Scorsese in Little Italy and Greater Manhattan, p. 231
 * Keyser (1992), Martin Scorsese, pp. 17-18
 * Ehrenstein (1992), The Scorsese Picture, p. 207
 * Also - is Open Culture a FA quality source? Looks bloggish and the author's bio only says he "writes daily for Open Culture" - can't find any evidence that he is a noted film critic or similar. Unfortunately I think the prose and sourcing issues are too major to be resolved at FAC, so I will have to oppose at this time. I see the article has not been through a peer review, and I would recommend doing this before nominating at FAC again to make sure that it is well prepared. Thanks, Spicy (talk) 21:28, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , I have made the changes as you suggested it. For the first two JSTOR link would not load for me IDK why.  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  12:48, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Oppose from Harrias
I concur with above. The general quality of the prose isn't of featured quality. The reception section still falls into the "A said B" issue mentioned in WP:RECEPTION, and the whole article feels like a series of choppy sentences, more like bullet points strung together than high-quality prose. I see that this underwent a GOCE review by, and that undoubtedly improved the article, but issues still remain throughout. The start of the production section is particularly noticeable for its choppy nature. Some other obvious issues: Overall, I would recommend that this is withdrawn and worked on outside of the FAC environment before returning. Harrias talk 08:27, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "..the analyst tells that "He only.."
 * "Author Ben Nyce describes.." Avoid false titles.
 * Be consistent about whether to refer to the protagonist as Algernon or Harry.
 * "It was noted that in certain respects Harry's "paralysing obsession" with the image was making "himself alienating"." Who by?
 * "However, his relationship with the man in the picture "renders the photograph, a metaphoric mirror"." According to who?
 * , I believe that I have addressed your comments.  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  12:22, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, to be clear, these were five points that were specific examples of issues that are widespread in the article. Although you have fixed these specific points, the prose in general remains below the level I would expect of a Featured article candidate, and this is not a suitable venue to enter into a detailed improvement of the article. Harrias  talk 16:47, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Coord note
Archiving per above and would suggest, as I did last time, seeking the involvement of a copyeditor versed in film articles to help improve the article. After that I'd recommend trying Peer Review before another run here; you'd also be eligible to give the FAC mentoring scheme a go. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 00:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)