Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Whitstable


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 22:39, 13 June 2007.

Whitstable
I believe this article passes the FA criteria. Epbr123 07:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment, no images of the town? -- Phoenix2  (talk, review) 07:58, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Images have been added. Epbr123 16:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, support now. -- Phoenix2  (talk, review) 17:13, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment, the lede is rather short, consisting of four paragraphs all of which are rather stubby. Resurgent insurgent 08:11, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The lead has been lengthened. Epbr123 16:18, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Changed to support after lede lengthening. Resurgent insurgent 16:43, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak Support: It is within size limits (41 KB, acceptable), has balanced sections, and has nice images. On the other hand, I think that it can be improved a bit. Although the pictures are nice, what about putting some more in the "Culture," "Famous Residents," and "Education" sections. Also, perhaps the "Famous Residents" section can be merged in with the "Demographics" section (maybe). Also, perhaps the "Culture" section can be shortened a bit. Also, I agree with the comment that perhaps the lead can be elongated a bit. This said, it must be necessary to also state that the pros eclipse the cons. Universe=atom •Talk•Contributions• 14:05, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments. The lead has been lengthened. It will be difficult to find more images but I'll try. I'm not sure about moving the Famous Residents section; culture may be a better place for it anyway. Epbr123 16:23, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Object - The prose seems stilted, and not quite featured quality. Just an example:
 * Oysters have been fished in Whistable since at least the Roman times. The oyster beds were first patented in 1574 by order of Queen Elizabeth I. The current owner is the Whitstable Oyster Fishery Company, which was originally set up in 1792 under the name Free Fishers and Dredgers. The oyster production drastically declined between the 1940s and 1970s due to pollution, disease, bad weather and underinvestment, but has since slowly improved.
 * The prose doesn't flow. Each sentence feels like it could be a separate bulletpoint on a series of lists, as opposed to being complimentary parts of a single flowing paragraph.  As such, it reads stilted, disjointed.  Not every paragraph has this problem, but enough do that I'm uncomfortable with supporting this.  The history section as a whole suffers from this problem, and furthermore has organizational issues.  I don't quite understand how the information is being presented... is it in chronological order?  No... doesn't seem to be.  Is it by subject matter?  If so, how are the subjects organized?  I can't tell.  Fix this up please. Fieari 19:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice work so far. BIG improvements to the history section.  I'm going through the rest of the article in more detail now.  Let's ensure this article is the best it can be!
 * Whitstable celebrates the famous Oyster Festival in July each year. "Famous"?  Who says?  Looks like a peacock term to me.
 * The culture section also could use the same treatment you gave the History section. The "Sport", and "Local Media" subsections are particularly in need of effort, with short snippy sentences that fail to flow.  They feel like lists of facts instead of prose.  The other sections there could use a bit of touching up too for improvement.
 * I know you link "Twinned" under the "Twin Town" section, but could you briefly (very briefly) explain the concept here, for convenience?
 * There may be an item or two more to work on, but I've gotta go for the moment. I'll continue reviewing when I get back to the computer. Fieari 16:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Those have now been fixed. Epbr123 11:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose, similar problems to Birchington-on-Sea (see comments there) on Wikilinking, see WP:CONTEXT and please unlink solo years as well. Example, what is foreshore &mdash; it should be linked.  Why are oysters linked?  WP:DASH attention need on number ranges (ndash, not hyphen).  Avoid sounding like a tourism brochure (... the closest street to the seafront, is one of the most picturesque parts of town  ... )  I believe shipnames are italicized; check with the Military history WikiProject. Redundancies and copyedit needs (In 1830, the world's first passenger railway service was opened by the Canterbury and Whitstable Railway Company. Whitstable harbour was subsequently opened by the company in 1832, .) 1832 is subsequent to 1830. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 01:04, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. I don't like the overuse of wikilinks either, but they were added by a GA reviewer. The one dash error has been fixed. Some more examples of where it needs copyediting would be useful. Epbr123 10:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, that's why GA is not FA; I'll revisit after Herne Bay and Birchington-on-Sea are corrected, and suggestions I made on their FACs can also be incorporated here. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 21:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Back for a second look:
 * Oops, just noticing something that needs to be changed on all (normally, I'd change this myself, but since there are six, I'll let you do it). Per (I think) WP:GTL, the Kent Portal link belongs in See also, not at the top of the article.  Portals are See alsos.
 * co-habiting perhaps should stay linked, may not be common to everyone? will leave that to your choice (per WP:CONTEXT), but throughout all articles.  Also, I'm not able to find a google indication that it's a hyphenated word, so I'm not sure on that (no prose expert; check with someone else, fix on all if necessary).
 * CE needs, as in other articles: As at April 2007, Canterbury City Council were making plans to boost tourism by building further retail developments in addition to the existing shopping centre.   (In early 2007, the Canterbury City Council began planning or had plans or planned to boost tourism by building retail developments in addition to the existing shopping center?)  Example only; suggest running through all text after a few days off, for distance.  Another example, saw a minor typo in text &mdash; hard to see all of these little things when you're working on so may at once:  Peter Cushing. Cantrbury City Council. The prose is still very rough here (example only):  The town is a popular destination for watersports, with one of the oldest yacht clubs in England and each year hosting the International Waterski Championships.  Another prose issue (and...and ... ):  Whitstable is one of the settings of the 1998 novel Tipping the Velvet by the British author Sarah Waters, and the subsequent 2002 BBC drama adaptation, and the hometown of the protagonist Nancy Astley.  Allaboutyou.com screams iffy source, but it seems to be related to a magazine?  Can you verify and indicate them as the publiher if that's the case?   Double check WP:RS on that one.  Everything else looks much improved; I'll review the other two after you've taken a few days to clean up copyedit needs and these few loose ends, but ce needs throughout are apparent.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 01:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Back for a third look. The structural issues all seem to be addressed (why did you remove the Portal entirely, rather than adding it to the bottom of the article as provided in WP:GTL?), but the prose could still use smoothing out and doesn't yet seem to be compelling. Some samples only. I see phrases that don't seem to be related joined in sentences (There are many amateur music and choral groups,[39] and the town's only cinema is called the Imperial Oyster.), choppy sentences that could be better connected (The street is also home to the Favourite. Built in 1824, it is one of the few remaining Whitstable oyster yawls. The Favourite is managed by the Favourite Trust, a charitable trust who undertake fund raising to maintain the historical vessel.), many uses of the word "also" and "various", and sentences that don't really add anything important (The parade involves various entertainers including marching bands and people in costume.) More work on the prose is needed. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 00:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Another look. I'm really not sure on this prose, and a more experienced copyeditor will have to look:
 * (hyphen on right-angles? Sentence ending in walk along?) A notable feature of Whitstable is The Street, a natural strip of shingle bank which runs out to sea at right-angles to the coast, for a distance of about half a mile. Located to the east of the harbour, it is revealed only at low tide, when it is possible to walk along.
 * (Hyphen on hill-top?) An view of The Street can be seen on the hill-top lawns of Tankerton Slopes.
 * (Hyphen on now-redundant?) A now-redundant offshore World War II sea fort is visible from the town's coast.
 * (Hyphens on criss-crossed, lack of hyphens on rights of way, and strange sentence construction about walking sideways?) The town is criss-crossed by numerous small alleys, once used by fishermen to reach the beach. Many of these are now registered as public rights of way and are still in frequent use. Squeeze Gut Alley is one of the more notable, which most people have to walk sideways to navigate.
 * I'm not a grammarian, so if someone else can clear these issues, I can strike my oppose. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 22:33, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose until Sandy's concerns are addressed. LuciferMorgan 01:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Comments. These hyphens (above) are fine, especially in BrEng. Further problems at random.
 * enabling passengers and goods to be transported between Canterbury and London via a steam ship at the harbour—So it was "beam me to London, Scotty", was it? (at)
 * Whitstable's distinctive character and ambience is popular with tourists and the maritime heritage is celebrated with a summer Oyster Festival in July each year. Comma before and, or there's a bump in the reading. Why not with an annual oyster festival in July? Use caps only if giving the title.
 * I still find the placement at the opening of US measurements first strange in a UK article (just use miles and feet first where it's historical).
 * I think miles are still more commonly used in the UK than km. Epbr123 07:47, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * show then have shown—the past is better, but why not present-tense indicate for the second? Tense is subtle here, but jerks if wrong.
 * Check Whitstapl—no e, which surely has been there since the Normans ... Maybe not.
 * 6 miles long --? six-mile-long (10 km long) railway—it's not ideal, but better than the existing. Abbreviated units not hyphenated. The plural must be changed, though.
 * The rights to fish the oyster beds—they're not fish, so harvest.
 * twenty yet 80. The boundary is between nine and 10, usually.

And more. So it needs fresh eyes for a final, careful run-through. Lots of it is good! Tony 01:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The above examples have been fixed. I'll try to get someone to do another copy-edit. Epbr123 08:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Striking my oppose per Tony1 feedback and Yomangani ce. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 14:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.