Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Willamette River/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 14:43, 30 August 2011.

Willamette River

 * Nominator(s): Jsayre64   (talk)  00:27, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because it is already a GA, it underwent a peer review (found here) and problems were addressed, and then a group of editors (,, , , and myself) have discussed the article's FA potential on its talk page. We have decided to nominate it, and we are confident that it meets the FA criteria. Jsayre64  (talk)  00:27, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:00, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Missing bibliographic info for Laenen and Dunnette
 * FN 102: page(s)?
 * No citations to Dodds
 * FN 5: page(s)?
 * Be consistent in how you notate multiple authors/editors
 * FN 31, 40: page(s)? In general, multi-page sources need page numbers
 * Be consistent in whether you provide publisher and location for newspapers
 * Be consistent in whether authors are listed first or last name first
 * be consistent in whether or not you abbreviate states in citations
 * Check alphabetization of Works cited list. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:00, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It should all be good now. Jsayre64   (talk)  16:34, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

"near the river's mouth at the Columbia." sounds a bit funny.

"although Willamette Falls, just above Portland" the word "above" doesn't seem super clear.

"In the 21st century, major highways follow the river or cross it on one of more than 50 bridges." are all the bridges for major highways?

"major highways follow the river or cross it on one of more than 50 bridges. Since 1900, more than 15 major" overuse of "major" in too short a span.

"Despite the dams, other alterations, and pollution (especially on its lower reaches), the river and its tributaries support 60 fish species, including many species of salmon and trout." too busy with commas and parens.

"Part of the river's floodplain (the Willamette Floodplain)..." might be better as "Part of the Willamette Floodplain..." - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 20:20, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Better now? Jsayre64   (talk)  20:28, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * That's good. I support the lede so far. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 02:06, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the first para of the body. "The upper tributaries of the Willamette originate in mountains south and southeast of Eugene and Springfield. Formed by the confluence of the Middle Fork Willamette River and Coast Fork Willamette River" seems like maybe it should be "the mountains" and "the Coast Fork"? Also "from the larger stream's mouth" the word "stream" is maybe OK, and maybe not. I'm getting the feeling there may be a few copy edits needed per para. The next one has 13 commas and 6 semi colons. And maybe that's fine, but it seems a bit odd. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 14:43, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope I took care of that. Jsayre64   (talk)  16:04, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comments.
 * First, I notice that you list the mouth as the confluence of two rivers. Is that standard practice? I thought, for example, that the Mississippi was the same name all the way to the end.
 * I avoided switching between the two by just saying "mouth on the Columbia" or similar. Jsayre64   (talk)  15:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "In the 21st century, major highways follow the river. Roads cross it on more than 50 bridges." - those two sentences are pretty short and cover the same content - could you combine them?
 * Done. Jsayre64   (talk)  15:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Since 1900, more than 15 large dams and many smaller ones have been built in the Willamette's drainage basin" - given how few "15" is, could you give an exact number? Technically 100 would be "more than 15".
 * If you add up all the dams on all of the rivers and creeks that flow into the Willamette, you end up with 371. The number fifteen counts the dams on the major tributaries of the Willamette, which is what we consider its drainage basin. Jsayre64   (talk)  15:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Despite the dams, other alterations, and pollution (especially on its lower reaches), the river and its tributaries support 60 fish species, including many species of salmon and trout." - I'll admit I was confused about the first part when I first read it. I suggest moving it around to something like: "The river... of salmon and trout; this is despite the presence of dams, other alterations, and pollution, the latter of which is especially prevelant on its lower reaches." That makes it much clearer what's going on.
 * Done. Jsayre64   (talk)  15:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * In Course, you should probably establish the state. I know it's in the lede, but it couldn't hurt. Sometimes I just jump right into the first section.
 * Done. Jsayre64   (talk)  15:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "The main channel enters the Columbia about 101 miles (163 km) from the Columbia's mouth on the Pacific Ocean." - any way to avoid saying "Columbia" twice?
 * Done: "… from the larger river's mouth on the Pacific Ocean." Jsayre64   (talk)  15:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Arising at 438 feet (134 m) above sea level" - I just want clarification - do you mean that is the elevation it starts out at? I think you should say something clearer then, like "The river starts at 438...".
 * Changed to "Beginning at 438 feet…"; I hope that's better. And yes, indeed, that is the source of the river. Jsayre64   (talk)  23:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "have detected reverse flows above Ross Island" - what does that mean?
 * Added a note in parentheses. Jsayre64   (talk)  23:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Between about 15,500 and 13,000 years ago, the Missoula Floods, a series of large outpourings originating at Glacial Lake Missoula in Montana, swept down the Columbia River and backfilled the Willamette watershed." - you should probably have a dash instead of a comma after Missoula Floods to indicate you are explaining what the term is.
 * Done. Jsayre64   (talk)  23:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Regarding the 1993 earthquake, you should specify the year and the currency type. And speaking of the earthquake, how is that related to the river? There's already a separate article on the Willamette Valley. And btw, what's the difference between the "Valley" and the watershed? I can vaguely guess (valley is the area between mountains, and watershed is defined as what water flows in), but they seem fairly overlapping.
 * I linked to the article about the earthquake. It was a major earthquake in the valley, and is thus related enough to the river to justify its presence in the article. Jsayre64   (talk)  23:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The currency type is U.S. dollars. WP:MOS says "Use the full abbreviation on first use (US$ for the U.S. dollar and A$ for the Australian dollar), unless the currency is already clear from context." I think it is clear from the context. Finetooth (talk) 02:32, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "About two million people lived in the Willamette River basin, 86 percent of them in urban areas, as of 2005" - two things. First, why "percent" and not %? And second, are there any more recent estimates? There was a recent census, after all.
 * I updated the population statistics with a new source and changed "percent" to "%", as that seems to be what WP:PERCENT prefers. Jsayre64   (talk)  23:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have to butt in here to disagree. It's a fairly minor matter, but the first guideline at WP:MOSNUM says "Percent (American English) or per cent (British English) is commonly used to indicate percentages in the body of an article. The symbol % is more common in scientific or technical articles and in complex listings." I think we are fine with "percent" here. Finetooth (talk) 23:52, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "it is the largest remaining unplowed native grassland in the region" - in what region? Oregon? Pacific Northwest? West of the Rocky Mountains? US? North America? Earth? Solar System? Milky Way galaxy? Local cluster? :P
 * Specified, according to the source. Jsayre64   (talk)  01:05, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "During at least some points in history" - weak wording, IMO.
 * Replaced with: "Although it is unclear exactly when…" Jsayre64   (talk)  01:05, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "The Willamette River and its tributaries were also heavily exploited; the Willamette area was even referred to as the "Willamette River fur trade"." - could you find a way not to use "Willamette" three times in one sentence.
 * Changed to "Fur traders also heavily exploited the Willamette River and its tributaries." Finetooth (talk) 00:00, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "the Willamette, even though the Willamette" - redundancy?
 * You are quite right. I have removed a couple of reps of "Willamette" and recast slightly. Finetooth (talk) 00:08, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "was going on" - could you find a more professional way of saying that?
 * Replaced by "The expedition members noted extensive salmon fishing by natives at Willamette Falls, much like that at Celilo Falls on the Columbia River." Finetooth (talk) 00:16, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Oregon City grew up around Willamette Falls " - see above
 * Replaced by "Starting in the 1820s, Oregon City developed near Willamette Falls". Finetooth (talk) 00:16, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "to the United States government for $200,000" - as with before, the year and currency type would be good.
 * I added the year, 1855, but also removed what I considered unnecessary detail, including the $200,000, from this paragraph. Finetooth (talk) 02:11, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Palmer, later criticized for bringing unnecessary risk to white settlers by angering the Native Americans and for often treating them unlawfully, was removed from the legislature in 1856." - that's a rather long clause before you get to the rest of the sentence. Try rewording.
 * You are right. I tightened the whole paragraph considerably. Finetooth (talk) 02:11, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "In 2011, the Army Corps of Engineers operates 13 such dams, which affect flows from about 40 percent of the basin." - the source was accessed in 2010, so how can it be "in 2011"?
 * Good catch. I removed the year and just let the present-tense verb carry the weight: "The Army Corps of Engineers operates 13 such dams... ". Finetooth (talk) 02:21, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "... is the Willamette Falls Dam, a low weir-type structure " - could you link to the latter portion?
 * Linked weir. Finetooth (talk) 02:25, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

That's my review up through and including "History". My biggest complaint about the article is the apparant redundant nature of the articles, such as Course of the Willamette River, Willamette Valley, Willamette Floodplain, and Willamette Valley. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:12, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your helpful comments thus far. On this last matter, though, I'd like to point out that I created Course of the Willamette River to keep from freighting the Willamette River article with unnecessary detail. Whether Willamette Floodplain and Willamette Valley can both be justified on their separate merits is debatable, but that seems to me to be a side issue and not actionable here. Finetooth (talk) 23:42, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.