Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William D. Boyce


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 02:23, 3 February 2009.

William D. Boyce

 * Nominator(s):  — Rlevse • Talk  • 

Boyce was an American businessman, publisher, adventurer, and founder the Boy Scouts of America and Lone Scouts of America.  — Rlevse • Talk  • 01:31, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments -
 * You've mixed using the Template:Citation with the templates that start with Cite such as Template:Cite journal or Template:Cite news. They shouldn't be mixed per WP:CITE.
 * Fixed. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  02:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.thecemeteryproject.com/Graves/boyce-william.htm deadlinks
 * Fixed.  — Rlevse • Talk  • 02:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * What makes the following reliable sources?
 * http://www.extramile.us/honorees/boyce.cfm
 * Extramile and Illinois Review document known facts that are not controversial, they document the same fact, that Boyce is honored by the ExtraMile program. Extramile has an about page too.  — Rlevse • Talk  • 02:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Extra mile is being used for this series of sentences "He then worked as a teacher, lumberjack, secretary, and salesman in the Midwest and Canada before settling in Chicago, where he quickly became known as a persuasive and shrewd salesman and learned business quickly.[1] He was a restless extrovert, roving from city to city, anxious to learn about new places. His books on business, travel, and expeditions often used the phrase "We pushed on."", which concerns me a bit as extramile doesn't cite it's sources, and the "extrovert, roving from city to city, anxious to learn about new places..." sounds like opinion to me. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I rm'd "He was a restless extrovert, roving from city to city, anxious to learn about new places."  — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.pabook.libraries.psu.edu/palitmap/bios/Boyce__William.html
 * Penn State is reliable.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not clear if it's published by Penn State or if it's published by a professor at Penn State. The rules are somewhat different depending on which is the case. (I poked around but couldn't find a home page for the project...) Ealdgyth - Talk 02:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The fact it cites is also backed up by Petterchak, so I'll add that there. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:26, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2006/09/illinois_hall_o_22.html
 * Extramile and Illinois Review document known facts that are not controversial, they document the same fact, that Boyce is honored by the ExtraMile program. Extramile has an about page too. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks to me that it's all double cited for this one, so why the need for this source that says right on the page "blog"? Ealdgyth - Talk 02:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oookay Rm'd it.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:33, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM1BX3
 * That web page has a picture of the plaque in question. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:31, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This one, I'll leave out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:55, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Plus this shows the campus is named after him but doesn't mention the plaque.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this ref is fine, even add in the one about the campus is even better.Sumoeagle179 (talk) 19:08, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:09, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Very nice prose, like the topical layout, interesting, good free images, nice job. Sumoeagle179 (talk) 19:08, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment The NYT obit gives his DOB as 1860. Ling.Nut (talk&mdash;WP:3IAR) 23:33, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing else I've seen does, so it's probably the one that's wrong. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 00:01, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Sandy Georgia (Talk) 01:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 02:09, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: I just started a thread at WT:LEAD that refers to (but is by no means "picking on") this article. I want the main source of notability moved to the first or second sentence. I see this problem so often, however, that I also want that made an explicit part of the relevant style guideline. See thread here. Ling.Nut (talk&mdash;WP:3IAR) 06:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I totally support User:Ling.Nut's sentiments on this matter. Per WP:LEAD, we are doing the reader a diservice if he or she can read two full paragraphs before coming to the one thing that makes this man most notable: founding the BSA.  Accordingly, I have made the change in the article.  Un  sch  ool  07:12, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

From WP:LEAD: ''The article should begin with a short declarative sentence, answering two questions for the nonspecialist reader: "What (or who) is the subject?" and "Why is this subject notable?'' (boldface added by User:Unschool. Un  sch  ool  07:12, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point, thanks for fixing that. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 11:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Image concerns as follows:
 * File:William D Boyce.png &mdash; I have corrected the source and found no date of publication there. The photo might have been created before 1923, but to qualify for that PD-1923, it had to be published before 1923.  Since Lone Scout has this photo for its cover, could anyone check the book for relevant information about this image?
 * File:BoyceGrave1.jpg &mdash; this involves commons:Commons:Freedom of panorama, which the United States lacks. As this statue was erected in 1941, it is not likely to be in the public domain.  As such, the photograph is a non-authorized release of this work (permission from the artist is required), thus becoming a copyviolation (which I have marked as such).
 * I believe the portrait can likely be resolved easily. If not, it, as a non-public domain image, can likely qualify for fair-use due to the subject's passing.  If the shot of the statue is desired to be used under fair-use, there need to be suitable commentary in the article and a strong rationale for the image's inclusion.  Jappalang (talk) 00:12, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Deleted the statue/grave one myself. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 03:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * User:Elcobbola found the png image in a 1914 Book by Boyce, so it's definitely PD. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 10:50, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, all images check out fine now. Jappalang (talk) 13:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I ended up tracking down two other (superior, I think) variants of this image (File:William Boyce3.png and File:William Boyce4.png) as well as one of a younger Boyce and one of an older Boyce. Эlcobbola  talk 17:08, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * What is meant by welfare at the end of the first para? Is there a link?
 * changed to well-being, with link<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 22:20, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * David and Margaret s/b The Boyces.
 * fixed.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 22:13, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Some uncommon careers are left unlinked: Coal miner, cartoonist and lumberjack. I would link them but others would not.
 * fixed.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 22:13, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Isn't there a more proper description than "cross saddle like a man" possibly with a link. Also is it cross saddle, crosssaddle or cross-saddle?
 * cross saddle is proper. Nothing to link to found, cut out "like a man"<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 22:20, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Unless you think the average international reader knows where Ottawa, Illinois is link it.
 * linked.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 22:16, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Why are so many newspapers unlinked?
 * Because they don't have articles. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> •  Talk  • 22:16, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments through business enterprises.
 * I don't understand. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 22:22, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This was just a note to myself about how far into the article I read.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 08:04, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * more comments
 * Link first occurance of cartoonist.
 * Fixed<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 23:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * White Supremacy comes from out of nowhere.
 * Because he seems to have kept it hidden for a long time<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 23:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Are The Forgotten Scouts gay scouts?
 * Gay former Scouts, clarified. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 23:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:13, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Weak Support I am unable to offer full support due to the fact that the article is not entirely chronological. Each section is chronological, but the article is a bit confusing as the chronology restarts with new sections.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:13, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * When I do an article pure chronologically, someone complains that it should be by topic; when I do it by topic, someone complains it should be chronological. I structured this the same way I've structured my other recent FAs.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — <b style="color:#060;">Rlevse</b> • Talk  • 23:42, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - Looks great to me; meets WIAFA. –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  23:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Support but structurally, having the death come at the end at Legacy doesn't really fit well. You could rearrange some of the timing to have it more biography, then job, then legacy. However, this kind of thing is opinion based and not really objectionable (similar as TonyTheTiger's view). You could have the pictures alternate, but also the same. It reads well. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:30, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.