Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Xenogears Original Soundtrack/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 19:38, 19 December 2009.

Xenogears Original Soundtrack

 * Nominator(s): Kariteh (talk) 22:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I think it meets all the criteria. It covers all aspects of the soundtrack's creation and also touches on broad subjects ranging from the original game to Bulgarian choirs and comparisons with Celine Dion. Kariteh (talk) 22:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments, leaning Oppose on 1c  by an odd name—various points. --an odd name 23:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Images need alt text.
 * The Mitsuda alt could probably be expanded further (see WP:ALT), but good alt text otherwise. --an odd name 00:46, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The music4games link is dead (gives a short error message); otherwise, no dab links or dead external links.
 * Ref dates are all ISO style (full) or Month Year (partial).
 * I didn't say you had to change all the dates to Month Day, Year, but that works as well. (It also blends nicely with the article's Month Day, Year style.)  Dates throughout look good. --an odd name 00:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 1c issues (verifiability etc.):
 * What makes Square Enix Music Online a high-quality reliable source? The site's "About Us" page doesn't convince me much—the "We're Hiring!" page actually un-convinces me ("Experience isn't required, but passion is essential!")—and it's being used for interviews with living people like Yasunori Mitsuda.
 * Per PresN at the wikiproject discussion, the submissions guidelines cover reliability for SEMO for me. I'm not sure if SEMO is high-quality for this article—I wish I saw some book or magazine references either way—but I'll let others decide that level. --an odd name 03:36, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Same question with ref 1 and its source site "Noisycroak". They both need to be HQ reliable.  Never heard of either one until now, and (except for a list of editors on the former) I see nothing to go by.  I am *clears throat* glad to see Bayonetta on their front page, but that doesn't excuse 1c for me, no no. (added on 23:53, 30 November 2009 (UTC))
 * From the second image's page: "This image is used on various websites, so its use on Wikipedia does not make it significantly more accessible than it already is."—I loathe seeing text like this on non-free use rationales, because it is irrelevant to whether the image can be used on the English WP. Usage by many places doesn't excuse copyright violation, but it does make the lawyers look for more targets.  I've removed it there.  (I'm not saying the image itself is a copyvio.)
 * "the first ending song to ever appear in a game developed by Square"—as in the first ending theme in a Square game with sung lyrics? (There's been numerous ending themes in Square games before then, so I'm guessing that.)
 * For the next time you submit an article (this or any other), consider peer review or an A-class assessment from the WikiProject to make sure you're close to the criteria before nomination, even if you think so. Good Article doesn't mean much here—its criteria are lower and the reviewers fewer (and stretched thin), so both fundamental and FA-level problems slip past. (added on 00:50, 1 December 2009 (UTC))
 * Fixed all these points. For the sources, I have opened a discussion at the relevant wikiproject's talk page to see what the experts think: link. Note that there has been precedents of Square Enix Music Online being accepted in featured lists -- see List of Kingdom Hearts media and List of Final Fantasy compilation albums. Kariteh (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I added a bit from Chris Kohler's Power-Up: How Japanese Video Games Gave the World an Extra Life to the article to have a book reference. As for Original Sound Version, it's a direct translation of the Noisycroak interview but I guess the link could be replaced with the original source. Noisycroak is a sound design company headed by Hideki Sakamoto, a video game composer who worked on critically-acclaimed titles. The clients of the company are well-known video game companies. Kariteh (talk) 14:42, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, fair enough for me. I've struck the oppose-lean; as with SEMO, I'll let others decide if Noisy and OSV are "high-quality" enough. --an odd name 00:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose on sources What makes these reliable?
 * http://www.originalsoundversion.com/?p=4061
 * http://www.g-wie-gorilla.de/content/view/691/5/
 * http://www.soundtrackcentral.com/cds/xenogears_ost.htm
 * http://ocremix.org/

Normally, if it was used for only a singular citation, I'd lean slightly reliable, but this forms about half the ref list. Has this website been used by reliable and notable third-party sources?
 * I'm not totally convinced by this: http://www.squareenixmusic.com/contributors.shtml

RB88 (T) 19:57, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose (image crit. 3)
 * File:Xenogears OST limited.jpg and File:Joanne Hogg - Small Two of Pieces.ogg have weak FURs. The audio clip, for example, is discussed but only in a superficial way as far as I see--it's not detrimental to our understanding if its lost. As for the alternate cover, that's bad NFCC application that's perpetuated by the music project. We don't need alternate art unless there's significant commentary about it. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 01:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Image review: Three images:
 * File:Xenogears OST.jpg: Album cover (fair use), used as main infobox image. No problem with inclusion, but rationale on image page is insufficient. See rationales for main infobox images of three music recording articles recently promoted to FA: File:FloydFC-Cover01.jpg, File:Madonna 4 Minutes Coverart.png, File:No Doubt - Tragic Kingdom.jpg.
 * Ive added a better fair use to that image now. Salavat (talk) 01:19, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * File:Xenogears OST limited.jpg: Alternative album cover (fair use), used as secondary infobox image. Appears to fail standard (see also comment by Fuchs above). Take a look at a music recording article recently promoted to FA that includes two fair use infobox images: Remain in Light (where the secondary image is of the album's back cover). In that case, it is immediately evident that the content of the secondary image is significantly different from the content of the main image. In that case, as well, the content of the secondary image is discussed in the article—it is worthy of critical commentary largely because it was originally intended for the front cover. In the case of this alternative album cover, its content does not appear to be significantly different from that of the primary album cover and it is not the subject of critical commentary. (As above, the rationale is also lacking, but this seems a moot point.)
 * File:Yasunori Mitsuda.jpg: Verified Commons image. No problem.—DCGeist (talk) 02:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.