Wikipedia:Featured article review/Selena/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Dana boomer 13:31, 13 October 2010.

Review commentary

 * Notified: Secret, AJona1992, Explicit, WikiProject Mexican-Americans, WikiProject Texas, WikiProject Biography, WikiProject Musicians

This is a featured article from 2006 but I don't think that it currently meets the criteria. Specifically, I think there are problems with: -- Beloved Freak  20:43, 17 August 2010 (UTC) Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 21:00, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * 1a) I'm not an expert on prose but it's not the usual standard required at FAC now;
 * 1c) Some more inline citations are needed. One example - the fact that Jennifer Lopez playing Selena stirred up controversy, but was accepted by fans - this is not sourced. Dubious sources are used, for example a user-submitted biography at IMDb.
 * 1d) Not sure about this, because I don't know much about the subject, and maybe there's nothing negative to say about her, but it does seem to have a somewhat positive slant to it
 * 2c) Citation formats are inconsistent, with some bare URLs. There are several dead links in the references.
 * 3) There seem to be problems with two of the images. If in fact they are ok and verified by OTRS, then presumably the non-free image used would not qualify as fair use.
 * What makes the following sources reliable?
 * Gale.cenegage.com
 * Who2.com
 * Selena Forever
 * Q Productions


 * First off Q-Productions is Selena's ONLY official web site since Selena's family don't give two f's about the fans thats what we have. "Selena Forever" is a fan site that includes information from NEWSPAPERS, MAGAZINES, TV SHOWS, ETC., and theres footnotes. (AJona1992)

I'm going to revert to the last FA version before the fancruft was added, it would take away a year worth of edits, but it's worth it. Any objections? Secret account 19:54, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I reverted, I won't find out the damage I did until tomorrow Secret account 22:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note this issue:
 * File:Selena-ComoLaFlor.ogg - 161kbps is not low resolution. This falls into WP:NFCC. JJ98 (talk) 23:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This file has been reduced now .-- Beloved Freak  08:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

I give up with the article, I want it to go directly to FAR unless someone is up to the challege, i wont work on it until much later in the year Secret account 22:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Secret - I just wanted to let you know that your message has been received. Articles are usually left in the FAR portion of the page for two weeks (which would make it August 31), and then if no work is happening, are moved to the FARC section for another two weeks. This should allow enough time for another editor to step up if they wish, or if you find you have more time, then you may of course step back up and the process can be extended. We are always willing to give articles a bit more time if they are being actively worked upon, as the point of this process is to improve the articles, rather than quickly delisting them. Dana boomer (talk) 01:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Why are you going to give up on this article? I mean I wouldn't mind it being a FFA because everyone is always negative about my edits to that page. It's like the article CANNOT be expanded which is stupid I can't add footnotes to it so what else is there to do? Maybe once this article is a FFA is when this article can be a featured article, Secret you really don't know that much about her I mean when I joined here the article was like a stub to me! Why onle include a basic knowledge about her? why only have less than 1,000 bytes in the lead when we all know (by my recent edits) that she has done WAY MORE? why not include her "stage" section as she is very known to wear stylist outfits? I mean I am happy that this article is going to be a FFA because its then that this article will have all the detials like Michael Jackson but every time I bring that up all I get is a revert to it. So I won't give up but I don't want this article to be a FA I'm sorry. AJona1992 (talk) 03:38, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Excuse me? "fancrut" really? maybe you should leave! That information is true just because the information was given by magazines, and tv specials doesnt mean that its false or as you say "fancrut". Good-bye hahahaha AJona1992 (talk) 03:41, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps AJona1992 could comment on the status of the images being used that are waiting for OTRS verification? As was mentioned at User talk:AJona1992, one of the images is published elsewhere on the internet, so that's a bit of a concern.-- Beloved Freak  08:56, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I already did, you guys love deleting her images fine go and do that while I'lljust keep 'trying and tryingand trying'' again. Oh wow you found it on Selenaforever.com oh theres WAY more websites that used the photos as well, like I said to the previous deleter, just by searching on google.com and finding the same exact picture doesn't mean I just took it. AJona1992 (talk) 16:30, 21 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment regarding criterion three:
 * File:Selena-DreamingOfYou-wiki.ogg and File:Selena-ComoLaFlor.ogg - purposes are word for word identical. Fails NFCC#3A - pick one.
 * File:Selena12.jpg and File:Selenagrammy.jpg - We have no OTRS ticket. There is an OTRS ticket for another Selena image by this uploader, but it did not provide sufficient support for the copyright claim and the corresponding image has since been deleted.
 * File:Statue plaque.jpg - Derivative work, No FoP in the US.
 * File:Selena09.jpg - Fails NFCC#1 if there are free images; what research has been done? Fine if there are none (and if POV nonsense -- e.g. "before her tragic death" -- is removed from the rationale).  Эlcobbola  talk 11:56, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see any problem with the plaque, yes the statue is a derivative work but a plaque? Are you sure about this? Secret account 20:14, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I sent out the OTRS letter if you didn't get it oh well not my problem.
 * "Nonesense" don't try coming at me because I don't play fair you DA. HAHAHAHA you just look stupid by saying something so retarted hahahaha. AJona1992 (talk) 16:30, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Who are you talking to now?-- Beloved Freak  16:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 * To you (look at your last message here) and to this DA guy/girl or w.e it is. AJona1992 (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, well I don't know what a DA is, I'm not "coming at you" and I'm not sure what "retarted" thing I have said, but I think you should perhaps slow down your editing on Selena a bit and try to get to know the FA criteria a bit better, and listen to people's concerns here. Hopefully the article can be improved so that it can stay an FA, but adding text that violates copyright isn't going to do it.-- Beloved Freak  18:52, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope I am not going to "slow down" I have done that before and look where it got me. I don't want this article to be a FA right now, there's too many rules about FA's that its stupid. I disagree in having the article 'Selena' being a FA article. Because its then when us fans who have more knowledge about her can be left alone. AJona1992 (talk) 21:00, 21 August 2010 (UTC)


 * There are also three red links in this article:
 * Ven Conmigo Live Tour is redlinked.
 * Entre a Mi Mundo Tour is redlinked.
 * Crossover Tour is also redlinked. JJ98 (talk) 18:56, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:RED; redlinks are not a problem if the articles meet notability, and are not a valid oppose at FAC or FAR. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 12:11, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, my bad, I will remember it next time. JJ98 (Talk) 20:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I removed the whole section, as I felt it was unnessarry I'm gathering the sources right now to rescue the article. The citations formats seemed to be fixed. Secret account 19:39, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a copy of a Selena biography in my nearby library. Hopefully I could get that by tuesday and rescue the article. Secret account 20:09, 22 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh so its ok for you to cite sources with books but I'm not allowed? Wow that's so pathetic. I'm not allowed but yet your allowed oh wow. You guys are so lucky I'm not an admin because what BLOCKED BLOCKED BLOCKED BLOCKED lolz BLOCKED BLOCKED BLOCKED. AJona1992 (talk) 23:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * AJona, who told you that books are not allowed to be cited as sources? Because that is patently not true. Books are often preferred as sources on many subjects - just look at many recents FAs, especially on historical subjects: they are loaded with book sources. Dana boomer (talk) 11:03, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I told Ajona on 20 August, "Articles often have sources that aren't on the internet (books, newspapers etc.) If you need help with that, just ask." (and then started helping him with how to cite sources on his talkpage) so I'm not sure where this is coming from.-- Beloved Freak  11:46, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm already starting to source, I ordered the book in my local library hopefully it would come. Thanks Secret account 18:02, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes she told me about it but I add it on Death of Selena and it still didn't matter, everyone was against me doing so, so that's what I am talking about.AJona1992 (talk) 20:44, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment I don't see the book by Patoski being added anywhere in the reference. We need the full author name, title, year, isbn, publisher, pages etc. I would also suggest a timeline splitting of the article, as par with the FAs of musician articles like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Janet Jackson, Aaliyah etc. Please change wordings like "was #75" to "was number 75". "3x Platinum by" to "Three-times platinum". Otherwise a quite well kept article and I would support its keep. — Legolas ( talk 2 me ) 09:55, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the source, it was removed during a round of edits, will change the wording now. Secret account 00:18, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

FARC commentary

 * Featured article criterion of concern are prose, referencing, copyright  YellowMonkey  ( new photo poll '')  01:23, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Delist per review by BelovedFreak, TPH, and Elcobbola. Above those concerns are not addressed. JJ98 (Talk) 01:34, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep for now, all concerns have been addressed. I seeing improvements to the article. JJ98 (Talk) 23:34, 12 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Delist. Concerns not addressed and, by all means, spare the gracious and sophisticated respondent from the "dumbasses" (abbreviated "DA").  Эlcobbola  talk 01:44, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair use concerns taken care of. Secret account 03:11, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Concerns resolved. (Status of File:Selena memorial.jpg may be somewhat grey, but I think de minimis could be successfully argued.)  Эlcobbola  talk 15:02, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Delist. Agree with FA criteria concerns, above issues unaddressed, also issues of possible comprehensiveness, short paragraphs, poor sourcing and unsourced chunks. -- Cirt (talk) 16:43, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you look for the unsourced chunks? and the poor sourcing as mostly been taken care off. Secret account 03:11, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Added a few fact tags. Still seeing some ultra-short-paragraphs. -- Cirt (talk) 01:03, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Added a source to one, another one is sourced already in the lead, and the other three I'm not at my dorm room so I can't get the book until later tonight. I don't have my own laptop and right now I'm in a poker tournament so I can't leave to go to my dorm right away. Secret account 01:27, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And with the short paragraphs I can't really add content without going though overdetail and irrelavent stuff, I want to keep the article as simple as possible. Also combining paragraphs aren't good for the flow of the article. Secret account 01:31, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the sources, removed one sentence, and beefed it up a little. Secret account 23:17, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm still waiting to get the book from my local library, I ordered it last week, but it haven't arrived. I'm not an expert in prose, so I need the time and the help to keep it as an FA. Secret account 16:58, 7 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Delist no major expansion of the article, still references needed and also a major problem that this article is only written in basics and not informative for other people, this article needs major work but I am not willing to and have not been editing it since the controversy of me editing since, how Secret put it "fan crap or crub", so for that I let those people edit the article.AJona1992 (talk) 20:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The article doesn't need a major expansion it just needs the sourcing from books and newspapers. Secret account 20:43, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment a FA article shouldn't be short, basic, and not informative point blank Secret as you can tell how the article looks like. Theres TONS of more information that can be added there WAY MORE but the ONLY way I can do so is if this article is delisted, all you guys have been editing is basic information on her, as we can tell I can write a very good article for example "Amor Prohibido (song)" I re-wrote that article in less than a day! But when it comes to "Selena" all I get is reverted even if I have a RS, point blank delist this article because all it has is basic information on her, I can re-write this article with all the books, magazines, newspapers, CDs, concerts and so on forth for this article that it can be as big as Michael Jackson and other well known famous entertainers. But I am not going to do so now because it will only get me a revert and me being banned from editing. AJona1992 (talk) 20:51, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not banning you from working in the article, you were just using unreliable sources, if you could find reliable sources, you could work on the article as free as you wish I need your help. Secret account 14:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Reviewing the talk page, the article's history, and the disruption at the article from AJona1992, I suggest this delist be ignored, and hope that the disruption will end soon so the article can be unprotected. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 12:09, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: I want to tell you off so freaking bad but I am going to tell you this, I am the type of guy that you don't want to cross. I added sources from the magazine if you don't have the magazine then shut up and stop accusing becuz you are not doing nothing to a address the issues above, stop crying about old shit and get over it. AJona1992 (talk) 01:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Delist, despite good work from Secret (and I hope you can bring the article back up to scratch in the future), as it stands this article is not FA standard.-- Beloved Freak  21:34, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How many more days it takes before delisting as I'm planning to travel to the library by bus to get that book tommorrow. Thanks Secret account 23:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You won't be cut off, but I moved it as there hadn't been anything happening for about 12 days and no reason given. No need to panic  YellowMonkey  ( new photo poll )  01:22, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks, I'll get the book today and work with the article. Secret account 14:09, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I got the book hopefully I could start working on it tonight. Secret account 22:49, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Delist concerns not addressed. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 00:35, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm addressing the concerns as we speak. Secret account 03:11, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep lots of work has been done by Secret. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 01:01, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep (although I'm not sure about comprehensiveness), a lot of good work has been done to address the concerns.-- Beloved Freak  10:25, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Still seeing short paragraph, two-sentence-long-paragraph in subsection After death. Also, can we come up with some better title for that subsection, rather than, After death? -- Cirt (talk) 14:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Done Secret account 14:36, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, delist = stricken. :) -- Cirt (talk) 14:38, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I need help, Ajona keeps trying to add information that is overexagguating about her like she sold 200 million records and 100 million people attended her funeral (some true as well which I properly cited), I'm out of reverts. Secret account 22:07, 13 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hold up you asked for my help and this is what all my magazines are telling me go cry to them and try to throw me under the bus oh well if the magazine says she sold more than 200 million then so be it, if the magazine said the funeral held more than 100 million so be it, so argue with them and not talk s about me. AJona1992 (talk) 22:56, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Article is currently protected due to disputes; citations need cleanup: See WP:MOS, missing date, inconsistent citation style, pls review others. Portals are not External links; see WP:LAYOUT. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 04:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * By ELLEN BERNSTEIN /Caller-Times. "Birthday hoopla is prohibited » Corpus Christi Caller-Times". Caller.com. http://www.caller.com/news/1997/apr/16/birthday-hoopla-prohibited/. Retrieved August 27, 2010.
 * I requested for the citation to be fixed, and to remove the portal, if an adminstrator can do it that would be great. All the other citations are fine. Thanks Secret account 04:33, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've gone rogue and edited a protected page. ;) Okay, no one is going to complain about something this simple; both done. Courcelles 08:45, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comprehensivenesss What's the status on this front?  YellowMonkey  ( new photo poll )  01:39, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * She had a short career, so I think it's as comprehensive as possible, can you remove the statement about Selena's mother with the tumor and it ended up being Selena, etc I think that's unnessarry, I only sourced it just to avoid breaking 3rr. Secret account 01:42, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment: Selena was in the music world for 15 years. She has done a lot, you just don't have any knowledge about her. Secondly no I disagree its reasonable to have that there esp if its in every Selena related book. AJona1992 (talk) 01:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you point to where the extra information can be found?  YellowMonkey  ( new photo poll )  01:56, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "TV Y Novelas, April 2005" (magazine), "Biography: Selena" (TV special), and "Amor Prohibido (special) 2006" AJona1992 (talk) 01:58, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * His unreliable sources like 100 million people went to her funeral, I got the biography written about Selena, everything that should be mentioned, is mentioned. Secret account 02:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * id you mean "Joe Nick Patoski. Selena Como La Flor. Little Brown and Company. p. 30. ISBN 0316693782. ? It has at least 288 pages  YellowMonkey   ( new photo poll )  04:29, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 269 not including the references sections, most of the beginning is family background, and alot of background information, the book itself for me is lacking, and outdated. Secret account 04:49, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Here we go again another attack. It's a MAGAZINE get over it, do I have to show pictures on GOOGLE or send you pictures of the magazine and inside since you do not understand that it is a magazine about her, just becuz you don't own it doesn't mean it's real. AJona1992 (talk) 02:08, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The magazine is unreliable, showing your 100 million people attended her funeral, and 200 million album sales (only done by Celine Dion) edits show. Secret account 02:11, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no rule that states that magazine is unreliable. If you have a problem with the magazine YOU should take it upon them and not on me. I am not the author nor publisher. AJona1992 (talk) 02:14, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Some magazines are reliable, is just because of those statements, yours are clearly not, your wasting my time. Secret account 02:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * So then why bother with me? I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. I listen to you when you said that the magazine was a lie I did not add any source from it. But yet your still here talking about me and the magazine like if I am the editor of it and I planned to disrupt articles and this site. All you do here is mouth about us Selena fans that we are adding fan crap and junk on this article, you have the OWN issues with the article. I only edit it if I find information from Billboard magazine. But oh yea I forgot its a FA so I am not allowed to edit it becuz every time I do it gets reverted becuz you guys just can't seem to think that a beautiful Mexican American star like Selena can have titles like those mentioned. AJona1992 (talk) 02:21, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * AJona1992, you don't seem to understand featured article crit 1c; if you think the source is reliable only because it's a magazine, please take it to WP:RSN. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 02:38, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Well no one told about that at all. Everyone is just dead against me on editing the page. We all know Billboard is reliable but yet revert it? I just don't get it and yet I am the one who is targeted. AJona1992 (talk) 02:43, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well you didn't add a billboard magazine source, you added your tv documentaries and telenovela gossip magazine (which is far from a reliable source, my mom reads it so I perfectly know the source). Secret account 02:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * At the time no, but we was talking what I added on the lead section for Selena about her having the most successful songs in 1994 and 1995 her being called "best Latin artist of the decade" and "Best 1990s singer". And it got reverted (hidden) and it was all coming from a source "Billboard" so point taken even if I added a source from RIAA that Selena sold over 100 millions records (just saying here) it would STILL get reverted even if the RIAA confirmed it that's my concern with you guys. AJona1992 (talk) 02:54, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * This conversation doesn't belong here: please continue it on your talk. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 03:51, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

STatus?  YellowMonkey  ( new photo poll )  00:29, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * There's no concerns for now, and if there is I will fix them on the spot. Secret account 01:23, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.