Wikipedia:Featured article review/Shakers/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was removed 14:50, 18 January 2007.

Review commentary

 * Talk messages left at Kingturtle, Religion, and Christianity. Sandy (Talk) 18:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

This article seems to suffer from many of the same problems that a lot of the older featured articles have: its quality. It doesn't seem to cite many of its sources at all. This alone should merit its featured status being removed.--HisSpaceResearch 05:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment -- I've identified some problem images as well. Jkelly 19:28, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment Insufficient inline citations. LuciferMorgan 07:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Move to FARC - still uncited, little improvement in article. Sandy (Talk) 01:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that the article is short on citations, but I disagree strongly with Rjensen's approach to that, which has been to delete entire sections that I'm pretty certain are completely accurate, and that I think provide useful background to understand where the Shakers fit into the history of dissenting Protestantism. - Jmabel | Talk 01:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

FARC commentary

 * Suggested FA criteria concerns are sources (1c), and images (3). Marskell 17:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Further down, I see at random:
 * Remove. Fails 1a and 2a.
 * "The Shakers, a Protestant religious denomination, originated in Manchester, England in 1772 under the leadership of Mother Ann Lee, who moved the 9-person group to the United States in 1774, where they built 19 communal settlements that attracted over the next century some 200,000 converts." It's a bit of a winding track to open with. "9-person group", then "four". Spell out single-digit numbers unless there's a good reason not to. Relocate "over the next century".
 * "Strict believers in celibacy, Shakers maintained their numbers through conversion and adoption of orphans." Add "the" before "orphans".
 * "Turnover was very high; the group reached maximum size of about 6,000 full members in 1850, and now has four members left." "Turnover", as opposed to "recruitment", means the coming and going of members. Is that what you mean? It's rather sudden to stick the bit about only four members left into the same sentence, unexplained.
 * This stubby second para is unnecessary, since there's a disambiguation note at the top: "The Shakers of New England should not be confused with the religion of the Indian Shakers of the Pacific Northwest of North America." It's an order, too, to our readers.
 * The lead is quite inadequate.
 * "where a unique communal life began to develop and thrive"—can't "began to" be removed?
 * "so that men and women did everything separately"—Presumably they mated together, though. Inelegant and exaggerated statement.

I won't go further. Needs significant work. Tony 05:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Remove writing is sloppy and needs to be fact checked and cited; work does not seem to be happening. --Peta 22:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Remove as it is now. Uncited.--Yannismarou 08:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.