Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/30 Rock (season 3)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 16:02, 31 October 2009.

30 Rock (season 3)

 * Nominator(s): Staxringold talkcontribs 19:24, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

After some heavy re-working it finally matches the proper style of other featured TV season lists, in particular the other two FL 30 Rock seasons. Have reworked this list to save the Featured Topic from removal. Staxringold talkcontribs 19:24, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Comments
 * 1. The image in the cast section isn't beneficial. An image of the whole cast would be better if not then none. --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, done. I figured it was good. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 2. Some episodes summaries are one or two lines. Please expand to at least three to four.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Will do. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 3. A production section should be available. Read Featured_list_candidates--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 4. A DVD release section should also be there.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

 Oppose 


 * Could do with some non-US information (relevant maintenance tag)
 * Such as? Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Did it simulcast anywhere? Canada is quite often good for that. I know nothing of the show, but judging from this, it looks like it was quite popular in Aus. Could you find anything like that for the Reception section? Other DVD region releases give a bit more world perspective. Rambo's Revenge (talk)  21:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Added. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would like to see a viewing figures column (like this one has)
 * I'll get on it. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Phew, all done. Staxringold talkcontribs 03:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This will annoy you. Most of those figure references have gone dead, and according to the tool it happened today! That includes your general reference. Hopefully, archive.org might have them. Rambo's Revenge (talk)  16:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahhhhhh, dammit. They have to go and update their site NOW? I'm on it. Staxringold talkcontribs 16:47, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There we go. All but one cleaned up. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd like to see more criticism in the Reception section to give a more neutral POV
 * Mkay. I tried to get a broad scope, but I'll post one or two of the very negative critics from Metacritic. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the plot summaries are a bit short. For example episode 14 is less than half a line!
 * Yeah, sorry, I told Diaa I'd do this and never got around it (got sucked into other projects). On it! Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still very concerned about these, some seem to be copyvios of e.g. NBC Press Releases (e.g. #22) or IGN (e.g. #21). Rambo's Revenge  (talk)  16:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll try to repair them. Staxringold talkcontribs 16:47, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed those. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * As Diaa mentions, a DVD release information table would also be nice
 * Out of curiosity, what information would you include in such a section? Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the lazy reply, but this kind of stuff. Rambo's Revenge (talk)</b>  21:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Added. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Additionally this Aus Region 4 release. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  22:07, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Is DVD Orchard a RS? It's the only source for that release date I can find right now. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's been argued in the past as okay. It is basically an Australian equivalent of Amazon. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  16:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The black text on dark blue background is difficult to read in the infobox
 * I'll lighten the blue a bit. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * In the references the date format needs consistency per MoS
 * I tried to... I'll fix any inconsistencies. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've done this for you. Figured it might be easier for me to do it. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  21:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * For those PDF refs, it is usual to have
 * Doing it now. Thanks, I wondered how to do this. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

<b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  21:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * More comments
 * Shouldn't be "Eastern Standard Time", because the April episodes would have aired in Eastern Daylight Time. Suggest just puitting Eastern Time.
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC)


 * "11:30", is that p.m. or a.m., also put the time zone or just (local time).
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

<b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  16:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think "Season 3" is usually written out season three, there are a couple of these and some will keep the capital "S" as they start sentences. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  16:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done.


 * Stax, are you keeping track of these comments? Dabomb87 (talk) 02:16, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'll get to them (lots of real world stuff coming up, yay writing a thesis and applying to law school). Right now my primary concern is finding replacement refs for the now dead NBC Universal Media Village. The old stories don't seem to be on the new site, and archive.org doesn't have that site archived. Gimme a bit. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Round 2 (still opposing on 1c and copyvio)
 * Okay I'm a bit concerned about that edit. Ref 11 says nothing about Moroney being "limelight-craving" and Girard being "playful" it doesn't even mention the characters names. Ditto with James "Toofer" Spurlock later on.
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ref 5 dead
 * It was ref 6, but added archived version. Works now. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:42, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ref 19 seems to go to the wrong place
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ref 20 doesn't mention 30 Rock.
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ref 21 doesn't mention "wise-cracking, trucker hat-wearing, repulsive staff writer Frank Rossitano"
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There must be a better ref than 22, which is talking about a show that hasn't even existed yet.
 * Removed (contained in the official NBC "about" ref now). Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ref 24 seems to go to the wrong place
 * Removed (contained in the official NBC "about" ref now). Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not as worried about the recurring characters references not mentioning there character names (excluding Leo Spaceman), but it would be nice if possible.
 * Hayek's does, Alda's 2nd one mentions his first name, but I'll dig around a bit. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep 11 copyvio of IGN
 * Fixing. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

<b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  17:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Final round (opposing on 1. Prose)
 * Ep.1: Shouldn't have to read GE
 * Fixed, it's NBC anyways. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.4: "there is more to Gavin than meets the eye" - this isn't a teaser, as an encyclopdia explain what is strange
 * The problem is giving away spoilers, but ok. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't care about WP:Spoilers, and are expected to be complete as an encyclopaedic article. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  17:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.5: "shocks Jack with his announcement of who the new CEO of GE actually is" - I don't know who the new GE is, but presumably it is relevant to the show so say so, i.e. along the lines of Jack was shocked when he discovered Joe Bloggs had been appointed as the new CEO ..., get my drift?
 * Again, trying to avoid spoilers. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.6: Don't see the value in calling it a "pre-nup" agreement, instead of prenuptial agreement.
 * If you mean the 7th episode ok, but it really is a POST nup, not pre. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.9 "invites Liz for support" invites to what?
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.10/12/17/19 you don't italicise TGS here, but you do elsewhere. Be consistent
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.15 "Liz tries to bring his to his attention." typo
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.15 "Tracy's contract but hits a snag when Tracy realize..." repetition of Tracy makes for an odd read
 * Problem is if I said he it'd be unclear if it referred to Jack. So I made the first one Tracy Jordan. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.16 you usually follow the characters name with (actor), but you don't for Dennis here. Is there a reason for this?
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.18 "However following a mix-up the" think it should be However, ..., the blah blah blah
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.19 "Jack goes shopping for an engagement ring with Liz for Elisa." awkward, goes shopping with Liz for an engagement ...
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.19 I had to look up what an EMT was. Additionally, if you spell it out you don't need to repeat emergency
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.20 "Tracy says feels that since" huh
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.21 "introduces supposed illegitimate" missing word?
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ep.22 "but soon discover Milton" discovers?
 * Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

This all stuck out in my first read through, and I'm pretty bad at prose. I strongly recommend you get a copyeditor. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  10:21, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

 Leaning support. I'm now in a similar boat to Goodraise, I have looked through this list fairly thoroughly and all my issues have been addressed, but I would be much more comfortable if an external copyediter/reviewer (who is much more prose competent than I) giving this a look. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  21:04, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ottava for giving the prose a look, I'm much more comfortable in fully supporting now. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  07:40, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:18, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That page is not a true dab, actually. It describes jury duty AND dabs to Jury Duty movies. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * But why do readers need to know about the movies? Dabomb87 (talk) 12:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Mkay. The information there is relevant, but I'll pipe (and link the first instance) to jury selection. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:57, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment According to the link checker, there are 16 dead links. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, like was mentioned above NBC Universal Media Village updated their site on October 9th and it killed all the old links. I couldn't find the stories when I last looked, I'm working on it. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Question Sorry this has taken so long guys, real world stuff. Anyways, would you accept The Futon Critic as an alternate host of the press releases? This, for example, replaces the cite about "upscale" viewers. It's a direct quotation of the press releases, is that acceptable? Staxringold talkcontribs 01:03, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I personally have no problem with The Futon Critic if it is used for direct press releases, and have used it in a couple of lists I got to FL. This particular press release doesn't actually give a specific viewing figure though, it just says the average for the first 16 episodes. <b style="color:#E32636;">Rambo's Revenge</b> <b style="color:#FFA500;">(talk)</b>  10:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Perfect! If it's been used in FLs before I'll get right on it. That was a bad test case I found quickly last night, I'll re-cite with the exact press releases tonight. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:03, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I struck my oppose for now. Will give a new vote after I give the article another review pass. <span style="font-size:medium; font-family:monospace, monospace;"> Good raise  18:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The sources seem fine. Licensing and alt text of images are acceptable. As a whole, the list seems to meet the criteria. However, that I've found so many issues (see my hidden comments), while prose isn't exactly my speciality, leaves me concerned that the list may not meet criteria 1. I would cautiously support this nomination, if it wasn't for that last unresolved comment of mine. <span style="font-size:medium; font-family:monospace, monospace;"> Good raise  16:41, 24 October 2009 (UTC) but I'd really like to hear the opinion of someone better with prose. <span style="font-size:medium; font-family:monospace, monospace;"> Good  raise  18:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments I have made some changes to the list based on my experiences, although I hope I haven't created any conflicts with the requests of others. Here are some things you could consider:
 * The lead should summmarise the entire article; however, it seems to mainly concern the awards. I think the awards should only have a small mention, rather than an entire paragraph. I'll be happy to rewrite the lead if need be.
 * Any help you could provide would be appreciated. What would you add, some basic plot summary? Staxringold talkcontribs 15:02, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I rewrote some of the lead, but the second paragraph is slim. I haven't seen this season yet, so yeah, I would suggest adding some basic plot summary. Maybe mention the main storylines running throughout the season of several characters. That should be enough.  Corn.u. co.pia  •  Disc.u s.sion   00:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:00, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * A production section is not needed, in case you were wondering.
 * I dislike the image of Fey in the crew section as it forces the blank space. That same image of Fey is also plastered on practically every 30 Rock article on Wikipedia. I suggest removing it, and changing things up a bit by adding an image of Salma Hayek or Alan Alda, or any other actor; just anyone who is recognised by this season.
 * I had this Hayek image in the cast section originally but it was removed per eailer comments. If you think it works better I'll replace the Fey with it. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:02, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. I think it looks much better.  Corn.u. co.pia  •  Disc.u s.sion   00:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what the other reviewers have said, but I dislike the DVD table, and its position. You could convert all the info to prose, like I did here, and then put it into a distribution section with the international airing.
 * Fine with me, I just did it to meet the style of The O.C. (season 1). Either way is fine w/ me. Staxringold talkcontribs

That's all for now, actally I might fix the last point myself.  Corn.u. co.pia  •  Disc.u s.sion   14:06, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, is there a problem with adding "universal acclaim"? The ref itself mentions it, so there's no violation of NPOV.  Corn.u. co.pia  •  Disc.u s.sion   01:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I removed it as it seemed fluffy. I love the show, so I'm amenable to leaving it since it's sourced but *shrug*. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:55, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's important because it gives context. For all the reader knows, a score of 84% could be common.  Corn.u. co.pia  •  Disc.u s.sion   03:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, go for it. Staxringold talkcontribs 03:32, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Support The Rambling Man (talk) 17:01, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Support on prose. I don't see any glaring issues, and I do not know much of the FL requirements to support on the rest. I was asked to look through the grammar. It was mechanical but fine (the lengthy lists of names makes it mechanical). Ottava Rima (talk) 01:40, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. All my comments were addressed and I can't fault anything else. Nice job. :)  Corn.u. co.pia  •  Disc.u s.sion   05:21, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.