Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Alternates of the 12th Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 22 October 2023 (UTC).

Alternates of the 12th Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam

 * Nominator(s): TheUzbek (talk) 14:28, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because Vietnamese politics is exciting! Hopefully, you find this list as exciting as I do. This list is modelled on my former FL nominee 12th Politburo of the Communist Party of Vietnam.

I know that communist politics, and Vietnamese politics more generally, is not the sexiest topic in the world, but I hope some of you will take your time to review it. --TheUzbek (talk) 10:51, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Looking at the sources, are the alternates actually notable as a whole? This isn't a big table, why can't it just be merged with Members of the 12th Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam? The External link lists both together and another is called "Portraits of 200 members of the XII Party Central Committee", and 11th Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam has both full members and alternates listed together so I don't think this needs its own article or passes criterion 3c. Reywas92Talk 13:56, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There is plenty of coverage of only the alternates, interviews with the alternates and articles on their training. Moreover, I took the decision to make them separate lists based on page constraint. Alternates are future leaders, or at least the Party's attempt to create future leaders of the Party and state. CC members are a whole different category and are elected based on representing of provinces, government ministries, and party positions, et cetera. More rules in this area also mean more information and less space to write it on (regarding the members of the 12th CC).
 * I could, of course, have nominated "Members of the 12th Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam" first, but I am already confident that that list will have as much text as the 12th Politburo based on already gathered material.
 * I am, therefore, very confident in my decision. But to prove you wrong I will begin writing the text for the "Members of the 12th CC" now during this nomination process to prove my point. TheUzbek (talk) 14:36, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * See changes Members of the 12th Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam. Still more changes ahead and I will expand the lead further (but not by adding new paragraphs). My point? It's good to have two separate lists. TheUzbek (talk) 09:12, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, you never followed up your comment... TheUzbek (talk) 12:06, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay, I wasn't watching this page. You've improved the main list quite nicely, but I still don't see why the 1.5 paragraphs in the lead that are about the alternates and the small list of 20 people can't be included in the main list as well. Reywas92Talk 04:30, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A lead in a list can only be four paragraphs: the lead of the 12th members has already maxed out. I've increased the lead of the alternates again. Now its three paragraphs.
 * Its very simple: alternates and members do not hold the same posts and have different powers and different responsibilities.
 * Can you support the list as is now? TheUzbek (talk) 08:19, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You move prose out of the lead into a section – there's no restriction that the body many only be the table(s) itself. My other comments would be that simply saying "Undergraduate" or "Graduate" is not very meaningful so this column seems unnecessary, and you don't need background colors for females. Reywas92Talk 20:11, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I had to take a psychological break from this discussion.
 * The problem with discussing with you is that you've completely failed to answer why two different subjects should be on the same list. I've asked you, and you've failed completely to answer it. It is annoying so the least.
 * Why would I merge these two articles when they are two different topics? Why?
 * Graduate and undergraduate are the terms that the Party itself uses, and they seem to think it is relevant. Why shouldn't be?
 * Background colour for females; it was done on the 12th Politburo of the Communist Party of Vietnam, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be done here. TheUzbek (talk) 12:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Pseud 14
This will be a review of prose and structure alone. Also going to wait for Reywas weigh in on TheUzbek's response re criterion 3c concern.
 * Be consistent with use or non-use of serial comma(s). i.e. usage in Party's Political Platform, Charter, and resolutions, while in other instances you don't.
 * Done
 * cadres could use a wikilink if available for better context, for those of us who are unfamiliar
 * Done
 * meet "basically" the same standards -- better off without "basically" as what is conveyed in this sentence doesn't change that it is a standard requirement
 * Done
 * I would avoid using transition words consecutively in each sentences. i.e. In addition, Moreover, Therefore. Perhaps only use it sparingly as most of these can be conveyed without them.
 * Done
 * At last -- finally or lastly is much more appropriate IMO.
 * Done
 * In the table -- since the abbreviation is Ref, the full form should be Reference, since you only use on citation for each.
 * Done
 * That's all from me. Pseud 14 (talk) 17:44, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reviewing the list! --TheUzbek (talk) 12:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Support on prose. Pseud 14 (talk) 15:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

NØ

 * Are words like "Moreover", "Therefore" and "Lastly" required to start the sentences they are used in in the lead? I have been advised against this sometimes in the past.
 * Great list. I urgently need some help with one of mine if you have some time. Regards.--NØ 12:14, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Done, removed "Therefore" and "moreover". I kept "lastly." I can review you're FL nom after you've finished reviewing this one. --TheUzbek (talk) 14:22, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That was the only comment, actually. Great work.--NØ 14:24, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, but you do support its FL nom? TheUzbek (talk) 14:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

No spotcheck needed, focusing on formatting/reliability. Just a note that I can't read Vietnamese, so I won't be able to check for typos in titles. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:54, 10 September 2023 (UTC) , all done! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:54, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Source review
 * I don't see why Vuving 2017 has to be in a bibliography. Since there's only one sfn to it, I think it's easier to just use it as a reference and put the page number in the  parameter
 * Unrelated, but add Template:Use American English or otherwise appropriate
 * Most of the links are marked as dead, so the archived url is displaying in the title. This should not be the case- but "live" in the  parameter
 * Unrelated, but why are the female cells under "Gender" marked pink and the male cells aren't marked at all? Or, really, why is gender relevant to this list?


 * Done on all points. Gender is relevant since a) Vietnamese politicians and official media highlight their gender b) gender inequality, and c) representation of sexes in political institutions is often the talk of politics, and that is the case in Vietnam as well, where the Party is striving to reach two-thirds women in leadership position within the next twenty years (if I remember correctly).
 * Thanks for reviewing the list :) TheUzbek (talk) 14:14, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Pass - great job, I understand why that's relevant, thanks for clarifying! By the way, if you have time, I'd appreciate any comments at this FLC! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:19, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much; I will review you're list! TheUzbek (talk) 07:25, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

This nomination has stalled out for a while, so I've gone through and reviewed it myself. I can't say that I feel that I fully understand Vietnamese politics now, but much more so than beforehand! I'm going to go ahead and promote. -- Pres N  22:31, 21 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.