Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Best Fighter ESPY Award/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 23:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC).

Best Fighter ESPY Award

 * Nominator(s): MWright96 (talk) 10:46, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

This list concerns the ESPY Award for those who partake in boxing and mixed martial arts competitions. This is one of many ESPY Awards that were introduced in the 2000s and is the official replacement for the Best Boxer ESPY Award. Your comments, suggestions and support are most welcomed and I will endeavour to address them in a timely manner. MWright96 (talk)


 * Support – All good for me. Great job! BeatlesLedTV (talk) 17:20, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose – This list includes columns identifying nationality, weight class and sanctioning body or league. The intro says the award is given "irrespective of nationality, gender, weight class, or sanctioning body or league". So, if the Nominating Committee is specifically and directly saying those factors are irrelevant, they probably shouldn't be listed here as relevant factors. If the award is truly given to the person "adjudged to be the best in a given calendar year" wouldn't something like their win-loss record or # contests, or titles held be more relevant? maclean (talk) 04:28, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Personally I am not convinced that such a proposal of replacing the mentioned factors with a win-loss record would enhance the list's value. MWright96 (talk) 12:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Update: the section of text you questioned has now been removed as I was unable to locate any explicit evidence to support that statement. MWright96 (talk) 18:28, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I still don't follow why nationality is given such weight. The winners and nominees are all listed by nationality (it looks like they are representing their country) and there is a "Winners by nationality" summary table in a separate section. With respect to receiving this award, why is their nationality more relevant than their achievements of that given year? maclean (talk) 05:10, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say that the nationality of the boxers is more important than their achievements but having the nationality after their name is common with other lists of this type like Laureus World Sports Award for Action Sportsperson of the Year. MWright96 (talk) 14:13, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I would say it was about presenting information that our readers would be interested to see, and in no way veers into the "UNDUE" territory. The nationality of winners of sporting contests is practically commonplace as to make it trivial yet expected in these records.  It's taking LEAD a long way down a requirement creep path to oppose based on the fact that items are included in the list which the lead prose says are not part of the selection criteria.  If a huge amount of analysis of the nationalities was made and some kind of conclusions drawn then we'd be in different territory but simply noting it and summarising it is not a problem at all.  We don't know what achievements were considered by the awarding jury so to add a synopsis of their various successes would be pure WP:OR.  The Rambling Man (talk) 21:00, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Is the logic that, in an article about the 'Best Fighter' in a given year, the belief is that the reader is interested in what the winner's (and nominee's) nationality was in that given year? I just see that as WP:INDISCRIMINATE (note that WP:UNDUE is about neutrality and no one has questioned that). The references don't give any weight to it — only Pacquiao's references mention anything about nationality. Ranking the nationalities, a quality that the references only off-handedly mention about two of the two dozen people, seems kind of random. The references provided just summarize some of the winners' activities that led to winning the award. —maclean (talk) 08:34, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That's certainly part of it. Most award sites make note of the nationality of the recipients, it's perfectly encyclopedic information.  The Rambling Man (talk) 15:09, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Support – Great job, looking forward to reviewing the remainder of the series. Cheers – Ianblair23 (talk) 21:20, 25 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Support my concerns addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:07, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Query - why is Demetrious Johnson listed under "Multiple winners and nominees" when he has only one win and no additional nominations? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:44, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * No reason in particular. So I have removed him from the list. MWright96 (talk) 20:31, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Cool. With that resolved I am happy to support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:21, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Source review passed; promoting. While I see that there's one opposer, in looking over their arguments I follow the logic but I'm not convinced. Yes, the ESPYs do not limit nominees/winners on nationality/weight class/etc. Wikipedia, on the other hand, is not the ESPYs- not only that, but the list is not attempting to split the table up by any criteria, but simply adding those details as metadata to the winners/nominees. Readers are (or potentially are) intersted in seeing that the award is given most often to X weight class or nationality, even if the award itself does not place restrictions on those. It's certainly possible to go overboard on that sort of "extra" information, but in this case the extra details are relatively standard for lists like these, and don't get to be too much. Indeed, if they were omitted, the list would literally just be a list of 5 or so names per year, as the same logic against nationality would remove even the pictures (and props for using a different picture for each year per winner).

Tl;dr: directors don't just count votes, therefore, promotion. -- Pres N  21:29, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.