Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Descendants of Christian IX of Denmark/archive1

Descendants of Christian IX of Denmark

 * Nominator(s): AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 02:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Imagine traveling back 200 years in time. If you had done so to tell a young northern German prince that he would become the father-in-law of Europe, he probably would have said you were being nonsensical. After all, this German prince, whose parents were only distantly related to European royalty, came from a simple background.

However, life had its surprises for this German prince. An extremely polemic debate arose over who would eventually rule his homeland and nearby Denmark. This German prince happened to have a wife with close family connections to Danish royalty. Consequently, with the support of multiple European nations, this prince was chosen to be the next king of Denmark. And when the time came in 1863, he and his wife became King Christian IX and Queen Louise.

Nevertheless, it was not enough for Christian and his eldest son to secure their place on the Danish throne (especially in the eyes of Louise). First, Christian’s eldest daughter married the most eligible bachelor in all of Britain. Second, Greece needed a new king because they had shown the door to their last one. As a result, the Greeks victoriously voted to install Christian’s second son on their throne. Third, Christian’s second daughter married the most eligible bachelor in all of Russia. Fourth, Christian’s youngest daughter married the throneless heir of the German Kingdom of Hanover. Their shared bond was that both of their families had lost territory at the hands of an even stronger German kingdom. And finally, Christian’s youngest son spent his life sailing the seas with a French princess by his side.

More than a century after Christian’s death, the story continues. Like an exponential function in mathematics, his grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and further progeny have increased the number of his descendants more quickly with each passing generation. These descendants have wed into royalty all around Europe. Because of this, six of the ten current heirs to European thrones can claim Christian IX as their ancestor! Can you guess which ones?

Christian, Crown Prince of Denmark, Haakon, Crown Prince of Norway, Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant (Belgium), Guillaume, Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Leonor, Princess of Asturias (Spain), and William, Prince of Wales (United Kingdom)

This list on Christian IX’s descendants helps to tell the story of a Danish king, his queen, his children, his grandchildren, and his great-grandchildren. I will note that this list was vetted both at Articles for creation and at Did you know.

This nomination is significant for various reasons. Personally, this is my first attempt to create a featured list on Wikipedia, and its success would demonstrate that I am capable of producing exemplary content. Second, I note that at the time of this nomination, only 10 royalty-related lists, and none on descendants of individuals, are of featured status. I hope that this article can serve as a model to all Wikipedia editors of what a great royal and genealogical list can look like. Finally, and above all, I hope to show a general audience that there is far more to (European) royalty than just the House of Windsor! Everyone is welcome to give feedback to make these goals a reality!

Thank you, AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 02:50, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Comments by Borsoka
Reading through the list and its sources, I am not convinced that it is fully in line with Notability, and I think its subject is not verified by a reliable source. Borsoka (talk) 03:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree, its DYK was held for a very long time, and I wasn't entirely sure it passed WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:NOTGENEALOGY. — 48JCL 12:04, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Very similar concerns were raised at the Did you know nomination. I responded to this inquiry by noting that Aronson 2000 and Lerche and Mandal 2003 established notability. The objector then conceded the point (in my eyes). Both of the aforementioned sources (albeit the 2020 version of Aronson's text) are also listed in the "Further reading" section of this article.
 * That being said, I will not object if the consensus of this discussion is to merge or delete this stand-alone list. If so, I ask that the tables be merged into the "Issue" (or corresponding) sections of the articles on Christian IX and his children. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 16:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank your for the links. I am not sure that works written by Theo Aronson are reliable sources. Miranda Carter did not write of Christian's descendants, but of three cousins who ruled three great powers during WWI. Lerche and Mandal do not seem to be historians. Borsoka (talk) 02:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

(unindenting to ensure collapse template works properly) So that my thought process in writing the article is clear both to you and to everyone else commenting, I will qualify the notability of the subject matter further:


 * 1) According to Theo Aronson's obituary in The Independent, he authored many texts on European royalty, including Napoleon and Queen Victoria. (As an aside, Aronson's obituary was written by Hugo Vickers, who was educated as a King's Scholar at Eton College and has himself written royal biographies, including one on Princess Alice of Battenberg and another on Prince Edward, Duke of Kent) Moreover, Aronson's obituary notes that his specific work on Christian IX's descendants that I cited has been described by Steven Runciman as "readable, judicious and well-informed". Even if Aronson's reliability is borderline, Runciman's opinion carries weight in the former's favor: the latter was educated at Eton College (like Vickers), a history scholar at Trinity College, Cambridge, and above all, extensively wrote on the history of the Crusades, which Cambridge University Press considers "one of the great classics of English historical writing".
 * 2) It appears that Anna Lerche (now Anna von Lowzow) is a film director (link in Danish), and Marcus Mandal is a movie director as well. However, their work on Christian IX's descendants that I cited has been made into a documentary that was shown by the Danish Broadcasting Corporation (DR), as noted in this DR press release (link in Danish, you will need a DR subscription to view the English translation) . Mandal's online information also notes that said documentary was shown in over 150 countries. Moreover, while I am unsure if this affects reliability, Lerche and Mandal's work is also publicly available online (link in Danish) via the Nota bibliotek, a library run by the Danish Ministry of Culture to make texts available to people with disabilities.
 * 3) Finally, I cited Beéche and Hall 2014 in the "Further reading" section. As Beéche's biography notes, he has a degree in history from San Diego State University (SDSU), and his honors thesis was chosen as the best history thesis written at SDSU in 1992. Moreover, Beéche has founded Eurohistory, which has, among other topics, published books on the dynastic connections of the Russian imperial family, the Grand Ducal Family of Luxembourg, and a memoir written by Andreas, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha himself. With respect to Hall, according to her publisher Amberley Publishing, she is a historian that has written on Russian and British royalty and contributes to Majesty Magazine. Furthermore, Hall's publisher has sponsored the (United Kingdom's) National History Book Competition.

Although I personally believe these backgrounds on the authors sufficiently qualify the topic for a Wikipedia article, I will leave it to this page's consensus to see if this is truly the case. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 17:31, 18 July 2024 (UTC)


 * With these sources, surely these should replace the "Royal Family Tree" sources (which appear to be SPS) could be replaced, right? I am still not going to warrant an oppose, but I would suggest withdrawal, there is a lot of work that could be done. 48JCL public (talk) 19:13, 18 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I have removed all of the self-published sources in the article that I could find, and I have replaced the citations with references to more reliable sources. If I missed a source and/or I should still use the Further reading texts more exhaustively in the article, please let me know. Also, with respect to WP:NOTDATABASE, the only criterion I could realistically see being used against this nomination is #3, as creative works, song lyrics, and software updates are not listed in this article. To make all of the lifespan information encyclopedically relevant, I have written prose that accompanies each table elaborating on the family life of Christian/Louise and the families of their children. Please let me know if that prose should be more comprehensive. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 00:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

48JCL

 * Tables need row scopes on the "primary" column for each row, which in combination with column scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Row scopes can be added by adding !scope=row to each primary cell, e.g.  becomes  . If the cell spans multiple rows with a rowspan, then use !scope=rowgroup instead.
 * Please see MOS:DTAB for example table code if this isn't clear. I don't return to these reviews until the nomination is ready to close, so ping me if you have any questions.
 * All "primary" columns in the tables have been defined. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 16:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Adding a minor note on to this- the row and col scopes by default bold the text in those headers, so since you did so as well right now they're double-bolded, which should be fixed. -- Pres N  13:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for noting this. I have removed the excess bolding both in the table headers and elsewhere in the article. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 01:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think a list should have "This article describes the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of Christian and Louise." at the end of the list
 * Could you please suggest how this sentence should be replaced? Per WP:SALLEAD, the inclusion criteria of a stand-alone list should make a direct statement about the inclusion criteria. This is the purpose of the text you quoted. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 16:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I have rewritten that sentence to attempt to make the inclusion criteria as explicit as possible without actively self-referencing the article. Please let me know if I should further modify the text. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 23:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I am noticing Blogspot and Wordpress being cited. What makes them reliable? More to come. 48JCL 12:12, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Issue with sources


 * I have replaced the Blogspot and WordPress sources. That being said, my rationale for including them was that the specific authors appeared to have professional credentials in their field. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 16:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that does not exactly make it reliable, still being a SPS. I'm still not sure whether or not this article should be supported, but thanks for addressing my concerns. 48JCL 17:58, 17 July 2024 (UTC)