Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of BLM Herd Management Areas/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:31, 1 October 2016 (UTC).

List of BLM Herd Management Areas

 * Nominator(s): Montanabw (talk)  07:39, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: I am a wikicup participant. I am nominating this for featured list because it is a comprehensive, annotated listing of the roughly 270 Herd Management areas for mustangs and feral burros (legally, "wild and free-roaming horses and burros" handled by the Bureau of Land Management across 10 western states. By necessity, it includes the Wild Horse and Burro territories of the U.S. Forest Service and some areas that have been merged or altered over the years. This is my first whack at a FL, though I've done quite a few FAs. I've been working on this for over a year and found it was far more complicated than I ever dreamed -- Government reports, contradictory statistics, political controversy and reading things with titles like "Cedar Mountain and Onaqui Mountain Wild Horse Herd Management Areas Capture, Treat and Release Plan - Fertility Control with Limited Removal - Environmental Assessment DOI-BLM-UT-W010-2011-0031-EA". I am glad to answer any questions and improve the article as the reviewers deem necessary. Montanabw (talk) 07:39, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Good list – and a monumental piece of work! A few comments to tighten up here and there:


 * Summaries of population by state table:
 * There are a few columns that could be made sortable: State, HMAs, HMA Acres, Pop. Horses, Pop. Burros, Total and AML could all be made sortable.
 * I did, but the last row (totals) also sorts, how do I exclude that row? Also, Pop. Horses won't sort correctly, any notion how to fix that?  Montanabw (talk) 06:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You should remove the gaps between the references
 * I would prefer to, but I ran into a glitch where they were making the column wide and not stacking. Do you know of a way I can fix that?
 * I'm not sure of the use of the images on that one: they don't seem to show
 * You can't see the images in the chart? I have one for every state... are they just running off on the right hand side of the page? I could run them down the side outside the chart, would that work better?  Montanabw (talk) 06:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry - no idea why I didn't finish the sentence there! I'm not sure what the images actually show us to help us understand the areas. Yes, they show pics of various horses, but they don't really illustrate the content of the row. I'd be tempted to remove the column entirely, which would help when the page is viewed on a mobile device. - Gavin (talk) 12:44, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 * To some extent, they illustrate the typical phenotype of horses found in that state or landforms in that state. I guess my answer is "I think they add interest and look nice," but I am open to suggestions — I've seen some FLs that have the images running down the side outside of the chart, would that work better for mobile users?   Montanabw (talk) 18:53, 20 September 2016 (UTC)


 * List of HMAs
 * Set the Herd description columns on all the tables to be unsortable (It's pointless trying to sort open text)
 * Fixed. Also did state, as I now have each state in its own table.  Montanabw (talk) 06:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Montana – one row table, so should be unsortable
 * Hm. I can, but hate to make it different from the others, and in theory, the BLM could make some HAs into HMAs there (unlikely...).  Your call.  Montanabw (talk) 06:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd take it out - consistency only need go so far, and one-line tables tend not to have the sort in FLs. - Gavin (talk) 12:44, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The Shawave Mountains row in Nevada need reference(s)
 * FIXED


 * Notes
 * You need to standardise the capitalisation (notes c and e start in lower case)
 * FIXED


 * References:
 * You have a mix of 'Day Month Year' and 'Month Day, Year' formats in there: when you standardise, I'd go with the US 'Month Day, Year' format.
 * I was afraid of that... wish the templates had prefs for US/UK dates... FIXED (I think, ping me if I missed any)  Montanabw (talk) 06:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The only other thing I'd add, which isn't an FLC requirement, is that it may be useful to archive the weblinks in the references to avoid link rot. (See User:SchroCat/Web archiving for instructions on the basic process, if you wish).
 * Can it automate all 263 of them???  Montanabw (talk) 06:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Hope these help. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 16:16, 15 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I made a start and asked some follow up questions, beyond the above, is there more I need to do?  Montanabw (talk) 06:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

[ref][ref] or similar. In the series of tables labelled "List of HMAs in [state]", do we need the added column of "State", which for the most part has just that state in there - some entire tables have the same term listed throughout it's particularly noticeable in the very long Nevada table, when they are all the same...). I think you should think about removing the columns from all the State tables, and mentioning and dual state information in the notes section.
 * Further comments:
 * In the "Summaries of population by state" table, you have spaces between the refs, which should be removed. If you're worried about the column being too wide then do [ref][ref]
 * That table has a quote in the Idaho row: I'm not sure this needs to be a quote - it can be recast in plain English, but if you're determined to retain the quote, it needs the reference next to it too
 * In all tables where there are multiple refs in a row, the row title should be Ref(s) (or Ref.(s), which is better - it gives Ref.(s) as an aide)
 * Originally, I had one big chart that I later split into different states, I see your point, but for some states (California in particular), we do need the column. I shrank it to just the state abbreviation.  Does that work? —MTBW


 * You need to make sure your footnotes are all sourced: D, E, F, G & I are all unsouced at present.
 * FIXED —MTBW

Hope these help. - Gavin (talk) 12:44, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Comments as SchroCat says, nice list, some initial observations. That should be enough to get you started. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:08, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't use BLM in the title of the list as it's an uncommon abbreviation (e.g. it's not like NASA for example).
 * I moved to List of Bureau of Land Management Herd Management Areas. That said, west of the Mississippi, the BLM is well-known. Long title now, but better? --MTBW
 * Add (BLM) after its explanation in the lead.
 * DONE --MTBW
 * " of free-roaming "wild" horses and burros.[1] While all free-roaming horses and burros are" somewhat repetitive.
 * Changed to "While these animals are ..." Better? --MTBW
 * You should use the convert template for areas etc, so people who don't know what an acre is can see it hectares, for example.
 * Oops, missed some. Fixed.  Did I get them all?  --MTBW
 * You link feral two different ways in the lead "feral equines" is linked to "feral" and "feral horse" is linked to .. "feral horse".
 * Intentional, the first is to the concept of what is feral (only the word "feral" is linked), and the second to the article specific to feral horses.
 * " bloodlines.Some" space needed.
 * Fixed --MTBW
 * Serious sorting issues with the table, most of the columns containing mixtures of numbers and text do not sort properly.
 * I noticed, any idea how to fix that or who can help me? (Or maybe doesn't need to be sorted)
 * Totals row should be anchored at the bottom.
 * Agree... thank you for fixing, I had no clue how... --MTBW
 * Done this for you here. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:13, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Make sure you have a consistent use of periods in the text in the tables and notes.
 * Arizona is not a useful caption for that table, perhaps "List of HMAs in Arizona" would be better.
 * All 10 are that way, changed all. Better? --MTBW
 * Table headings should avoid being overcapitalised, e.g. you have Horse Burro, I guess "Horse/burro" is preferable, similaraly HMA Acres -> HMA acres (ha), Pop. Horses -> Pop. horses etc...
 * Fixed, I think. Did I miss any? --MTBW
 * Use en-dash (per WP:DASH) for number ranges, e.g. AML 382-478 should be AML 382–478.
 * Looks like fixed it...thank you! --MTBW
 * Multiple refs should be in numerical order.
 * Meh, yes, that's hard for me to do in the edit window and VE crashes on this list, but will work on it (be back to this). FIXED I think?--MTBWW
 * Consistent capitalisation within the tables, e.g. "horse" or "Horse".
 * Fixed, I think. Lots of entries, if you see a problem spot, help... --MTBW
 * HMAs with "No current population" probably need some explanatory notes as to why they're HMAs.
 * Open to suggestions. There are a number of reasons.  Some have been administratively merged with another region, others have had temporary removals due to things like fires destroying the range, and most of all, the numbers change all the time -- some have an AML of zero but actually have dozens of animals living there... it varies.  I could put in a paragraph about that (or a sentence, except it would say, "BLM's AML numbers are, at times, pulled out of a hat, I think.")
 * "15 ‐ 16 hands (60 ‐ 64 inches, 152 ‐ 163 cm)" unspaced en-dashes rather than spaced hyphens per the MOS.
 * Fixed. I think. MTBW
 * Ref 8 should be broken down into which page number of the PDF is pertinent to each use of the reference.
 * Same applies to Ref 31, and pretty much any other use of a PDF or document which has more than a couple of pages.
 * Some are unpaginated, including refs 8 and 31 so is Ref 18 --even manually counting pages wouldn't help others, I don't think the only way I found stuff there was to word search for the state or for the HMA. Advice there? --MBTW


 * Sorry for the delay. I did all the small stuff, I'm working on the bigger stuff, if you ( and  could be so kind as to answer some of the questions I have here and clarify if I've fixed what I thought I've fixed.   Montanabw (talk) 23:33, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Image and source review
Sorry for the delay in reviewing this but my computer had broken. Anyway I have no comments to make for the list's prose and thus am conducting a review for images and sources. I would like my queries to be answered, before I support it.
 * Why haven't you linked any of the list's publishers? I suppose it is okay since I can name several articles not doing it.
 * Most of the time the website and the publisher are identical (the Bureau of Land Management). --MTBW
 * WP:SHOUTING in the title of reference 2.
 * Fixed -- MTBW
 * I am not familiar with the sources' credibility. Assuming good faith on that one.
 * References for books should use cite book so that the titles could be in italics.
 * I don't think I have used any book sources. --MTBW
 * Ref 4 and 5. FrB.TG (talk) 13:04, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * One already uses cite book, I fixed the other now. They are both government reports, so they fall into kind of a weird gray area. But titles italicized. Montanabw (talk) 03:09, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * This is not related to references but I don't think you need to make "Ref" in tables sortable and could probably use abbr to clarify their usage.
 * Made unsortable, unclear what clarification is needed? -MTBW
 * I spot-checked about 10 sources and didn't find anything suspicious.
 * Earwig's Copyvio Detection does not reveal much evidence of copyvio.
 * Images are appropriately licensed - they are either under public domain or were posted in Flickr with permission to share or remix the files.
 * Images are also provided with alt texts. – FrB.TG (talk) 18:19, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you,, and my apologies for taking so long to get to this (been off-wiki for several days due to travel and work). I think I have addressed your concerns and would be glad to work on anything else you think needs it.   Montanabw (talk) 04:00, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Replied to one comment above and also see ref 2. FrB.TG (talk) 13:04, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi User:FrB.TG. I fixed ref 2.  (At least it looks to me like I did... the all caps are gone... anything else?  Montanabw (talk) 03:35, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Great! Support. – FrB.TG (talk) 15:36, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Right, so, SchroCat's retired, and TRM almost never bothers to support or oppose, so I'm going to count those as supports and give this a review to check before closing.
 * Note that, unless you're quoting a full sentence, punctuation goes outside of the quote marks. I've fixed this for you.
 * Fixed a ton of formatting inconsistencies in your "Pop/AML" columns (usually "AML 50 horses", sometimes 50 horses AML, or Horses AML 50, etc., and your use of breaks vs. slashes vs. commas was mixed)
 * Also fixed how Utah only used capitalized Horse or Burro for the types
 * Renamed "Horse burro" column to the more rational "Type(s)"; you may consider changing the cells that say "horse burro" to just "both"
 * I've reached the point where "horse" no longer looks like a word, but that was it. Closing as promoted. -- Pres N  16:01, 30 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.