Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Brigham Young University alumni


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 10:03, 2 August 2008.

List of Brigham Young University alumni
previous FLC (08:36, 17 July 2008)

This list didn't really get a fair look last FLC, as few editors commented. Thanks for your (re-)consideration! --Eustress (talk) 01:34, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Gary King ( talk ) 03:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:LAYOUT: "See also" goes before "References"
 * Fixed. --Eustress (talk) 03:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think links to categories are usually placed in "See also"? People can click on the categories at the bottom to reach those.
 * Good point--fixed. --Eustress (talk) 03:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Every time B.A., M.A., Ph.D., etc. is mentioned it doesn't need to be linked. Just link the first mention, otherwise the page is a sea of blue. Same goes for BYU and other links that are linked more than once, especially in the same section.
 * In our last FLC we were told to link them all since they are part of a sortable list. --Eustress (talk) 03:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, makes sense Gary King ( talk ) 03:58, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

question Does this univerity only have the graduates listed? If there are other graduates, why were they excluded? Fasach Nua (talk) 08:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand your question, but in the article's lead it explains that this list "includes notable graduates, non-graduate former students, and current students." --Eustress (talk) 13:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it a comlplete list of alumni? If alumni have been excluded why have they been excluded? Where does the notability crieria come from? Fasach Nua (talk) 13:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, it is a complete list of BYU's notable alumni. Thanks. --Eustress (talk) 20:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the question is "What is the definition of 'notable' in this instance?" The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * For this context, I feel that "Notable" = "Having a wikipedia article" Bluap (talk) 21:21, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All notable alumni, as determined per Wikipedia's notable people guidelines, have been listed in order to ensure "a complete set of items [i.e., alumni] where practical, or otherwise at least all of the major items" (FL criterion #3). The only place in the list where it seemed impractical to list a complete set was for Football alumni: BYU lists 146 alumni who have played professional football; the FLC includes 24 of them (which accounts for more alumni than any of the other subcategories in the list, and which were not subjectively chosen but were included because they already had articles—perhaps because these 24 alumni had done something more unique than simply playing in the pros, like winning a Super Bowl, being a Pro Bowler, or being a Head Coach). So I believe this criterion is covered in that all of the major items have been covered since it would be impractical to list them all. Such an exception is not only built into the FLC process but is also already apparent in current FLs. For example, List of Dartmouth College alumni only lists 19 alumni while Dartmouth lists 39.
 * Hope this helps clarify. Thanks. --Eustress (talk) 21:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If this article is about all "Brigham Young University alumni that meet wikipedia notability criteria for inclusion", the it should be called "Brigham Young University alumni that meet wikipedia notability criteria for inclusion" per WP:NAME. There is an OR problem here, you need an off wiki definition of notable, or it is just someone point of view of what is notable. Fasach Nua (talk) 12:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

(←) We've had this argument before when List of Arsenal F.C. players was listed for demotion as incomplete. The demotion attempte failed and since then we've adjusted the FL criteria. In particular, number 3, the comprehensiveness criterion states "It comprehensively covers the defined scope, providing a complete set of items where practical, or otherwise at least all of the major items; where appropriate, it has annotations that provide useful and appropriate information about entries." - so once a scope is defined, and once we are certain the list contains everything within the scope, it meets the criterion. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:16, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The scope of this list is "Brigham Young University alumni", is it not? Fasach Nua (talk) 10:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that's the title of the list - if the scope is better defined in the lead then so be it. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak support Support Seems to be exhaustive, well-referenced, and consistent list with a substantial introduction and accompanying content. There seems to be booster-cruft ("best-selling", "acclaimed", "award-winning", "renowned") which always rubs me the wrong way because these terms (1) they convey no actual information and (2) are inappropriate in an encyclopedia which is clearly not a marketing brochure. These terms should be stripped out and more information provided on what they're specifically acclaimed for, what awards they won, etc. Full support once that is done. Madcoverboy (talk) 01:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Good catch...I believe I have fixed the booster-cruft issues. Thanks! --Eustress (talk) 17:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would add that it unabashedly lists alumni that are quite anti-booster (is that a word?) Wrad (talk) 21:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Well-referenced, covers its defined scope very well, nice lead. All the little things were fixed in the last FLC. Wrad (talk) 13:18, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I like the look of it, in general, but would prefer that the explanation of what BYU is was in the first paragraph of the lead, not the last. I'd also prefer the term "notes" instead of "notability" for each table - "notability" sounds a little too Wikipedia-orientated. BencherliteTalk 00:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I moved the BYU explanation in the lead accordingly. However, four of the five alumni FLs under WikiProject Universities display the word "Notability" for the brief bio blurb, so that might be personal preference (me, at least, preferring "notability"), but the majority of the WPU FLs use "notability" as well. If other editors preferred "notes", however, I wouldn't be strongly opposed to the change. Best --Eustress (talk) 14:06, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Support. BencherliteTalk 15:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Support It looks good. Well referenced, the couple of weasel words I saw a couple days ago isn't here anymore.   - Jameson L. Tai   talk  ♦  contribs  21:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.