Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Cincinnati Reds managers/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Matthewedwards 21:15, 10 February 2009.

List of Cincinnati Reds managers

 * Nominator(s): jj137 (talk)

All right, I think this one is ready. Let's see how it fares. All comments are welcome. (And yes, I am in the Wikicup, if that matters at all.)  jj137 (talk) 17:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 Weak Oppose/ Comments from  - prose and format problems
 * The Cincinnati Reds are a professional baseball team based in Cincinnati, Ohio. - per consistency with other lists and because they are an American baseball franchise the word "American" should be added before "professional"
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 03:45, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There have been fifty-nine different managers in their franchise history; four during the era of the Cincinnati Redlegs (1953–1958), and the rest under the Cincinnati Reds (1882–1952, 1959–present). - 1)the semi colon should be a colon 2)Remove the comma 3)Be consistent with the statistics, you can be explaining some of the coaches with actual numbers and then say the rest, give the actual number
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 21:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Since 2003, the Red Sox have played their home games at Great American Ball Park.' - Red Sox''? Also, what about before 2003?
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 21:29, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sparky Anderson managed the most games with 1,449 and wins with 863 with the Reds. - this would be better represented as it is in the List of Washington Nationals managers FL
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 21:32, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Anderson is the only Reds manager to have two World Series wins, coming in 1975 and 1976. -->Anderson is the only Reds manager to have won the World Series twice, in 1975 and 1976.
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 21:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Pat Moran, Lou Piniella, and McKechnie had one World Series victory each; Moran was the manager during the infamous 1919 World Series. - why was it infamous?
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 03:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * McKechnie won his championship in 1940, while Piniella won his in 1990. - I'm pretty sure they "led the team to the championship", since they can't literally win the championship
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 03:49, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Jack McKeon is the only Reds manager to win the Manager of the Year Award, winning in 1999. ---> Jack McKeon is the only manager to have won the Manager of the Year Award with the Reds, which he won in 1999.
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 21:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it necessary to force the TOC? It leaves a white space in between the prose and the TOC table
 * Removed.  jj137 (talk) 03:41, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ref # 5 should be made into a general reference and the in-line citations in the table to this source should be removed if the gen. ref. is added.
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 21:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Why isn't the # column sortable?
 * Fixed. I didn't see a point in that originally I guess.  jj137 (talk) 01:02, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All the entries should be center aligned, minus the achievements
 * This is actually not a requirement; I do it in my tables for aesthetic reasons but it doesn't have to be. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  17:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The achievements should be in a "World Series (1975, 1976)" format
 * Fixed.  jj137 (talk) 21:40, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The lead should be expanded a bit more, who is the owner, who found them, etc.-- TRU    CO   21:50, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed, I think.  jj137 (talk) 21:44, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - problems fixed to meet WP:WIAFL.-- TRU    CO   22:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Last thing that I can see is that Baseball Almanac is not considered a reliable source by the Baseball WikiProject. You could replace those links from Baseball Reference or add references from BA/Retrosheet to each manager's table row. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  13:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Where does the Baseball WikiProject state that Baseball Almanac is not considered a reliable source? Rlendog (talk) 03:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just going by what I was told in my first two FLCs by other reviewers; I had to remove all of the references to Baseball Almanac because it wasn't reliable. I would say that perhaps this page establishes reliability, but I'm far from an expert on the subject. What's your opinion, Rlendog? KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  12:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually asked because I had a similar experience. I just thought from your comment that there might be something on WP:BASEBALL noting that, rather than it being the opinion of one or two particular reviewers.  The reason I was given was along the lines of "they claim to have x number of pages and y number of facts, but how do we know we can rely on their factchecking process."  And I am not sure how that can be addressed, or why Baseball-Reference or BaseballLibrary don't generate similar concerns.  I can't say I use Baseball Almanac as much as BR, but I haven't found any problems with the information there (I did actually find an error in BR that I think Basball Almanac has correct, where they listed a Kansas City Athletics home game - not even against the Red Sox - being played at Fenway, not that I am suggesting BR is unreliable as a result).  My view is that at the very least the information on BA should be viewed on its own merits, rather than a blanket statement that it is considered unreliable.  For example, I would think a box score appearing on Baseball Almanac would be as reliable as that box score appearing on any other source.  Or if a Baseball Almanac article contains some information that can traced back to a different accepted reliable source but also some additional information, there is a good chance that the additional information is reliable as well.  That said, I believe that the information referenced from Baseball Almanac in this article is also available on B-R, so it may be best to just switch the ref to deflect any concern. I may just add the B-R ref myself if I get a chance tonight. Rlendog (talk) 00:47, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a note: Baseball-Reference was proved reliable at this FAC. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:55, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What am I missing? I don't see Baseball-Reference discussed at all at that FAC, and the FAC was failed.  In any case, I have no problem considering BR a reliable source.  I'm just not sure what it would take for Baseball Alamanac to be considered a reliable source, and even if it is not considered a reliable source for everything, it would seem that it would be a reliable source for certain things, such as box scores.  With respect to this FLC, I changed the ref to BR.  In this case, it is clearly superior to BA, since it includes games managed.  BA only has the won-lost record, and so the games managed was apparently determined by adding the two.  But this is a problem, since it ignores tie games, and there were also some typos or arithmetic mistakes.  I think I fixed all those. Rlendog (talk) 04:09, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments from
 * "The Reds are members"-->They are members
 * "There have been fifty-nine different managers in the team's franchise history," Comma should be a colon.
 * "regular season games"-->regular-season games
 * "regular season game wins"-->regular-season game wins
 * "Pat Moran, Lou Piniella, and McKechnie had one World Series victory each" "had"-->have.
 * Image captions that are not complete sentences should not have periods.
 * File:BidMcPhee3.jpg needs an author. How do we know that the image was published before 1923? Dabomb87 (talk) 00:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Sources
 * What makes http://www.baseball-almanac.com/mgrtmcr.shtml a reliable source? We need to know their methods of fact-checking.
 * The Baseball-Reference citations are inconsistent. This is how they should be formatted: Dabomb87 (talk) 00:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I fixed the issues with games managed and the references (see above), but I think the list should reflect League Championships (e.g., 1970 and 1972) in addition to World Series Championships. Rlendog (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments from --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c]
 * I don't know if this still stands, but wikilinking articles like this:, violates WP:MOS. Don't know for sure now, but hope that more users will comment on this situation. You could wikilink it like this: 1940 season. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 08:48, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * MOS:LINKS --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 10:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "...in regular season games managed (1,449)..." The table lists 1,450.
 * "...with 1,380 and 744, respectively...." The table lists 1,386.
 * Please fix the disambiguation links.

--  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 08:48, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The discrepencies in the number of games managed came about when I corrected the number of games in the table. I fixed those numbers in the lead now too. Rlendog (talk) 15:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment This FLC seems to have stagnated; the nominator has not edited since January 27. Dabomb87 (talk) 05:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.