Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Coppa Italia finals/archive4


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC).

List of Coppa Italia finals

 * Nominator(s): Dr Salvus, Foghe, Snowflake91 21:07, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Since March 2021, I have often read the second nomination and I think I have fixed every user's concern about it. (If I haven't, it may be because I had written many cazzate in it.) I hadn't nominated it before due to a fear to fail it for the fourth time, but I now think the article is OK. I couldn't find the attendance prior to the 1980s, but remember the cup didn't even have television broadcast at that moment, so I think the attendance information wasn't registrated.. Dr Salvus 21:07, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Though semi-active, I'd like to co-nominate . He's the one who made the article decent on 18 June 2020. Dr Salvus 13:07, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments by Goldsztajn (copy-edits to lede)
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ This article is not written in US English. However, I've changed "Inter Milan is" to "Inter Milan are". ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 04:29, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "Since the first final between Vado and Udinese" Link Vado and Udinese
 * "...the initial game ended in a scoreless draw" goalless draw.
 * "to assign the cup" ... to determine the winner.
 * "Inter Milan is the only team to manage to win the Serie A..."
 * "From 1923 to 1925, from 1928 to 1935 and from 1944 to 1957, the tournament was not held." ... The tournament was not held in the years 1923–1925, 1928–1935 and 1944–1957.
 * It was reintroduced in 1958, in the light of the UEFA project" ... It was recommenced in 1958, in conjunction with the UEFA project...
 * "Juventus hold the record for winning the most titles (14)" ... holds
 * "the highest number of consecutive cups" ... the highest number of consecutive victories in the final
 * "and of having played in the most finals" ... and playing in the most finals.
 * "share the worst win–loss record with three defeats and no successes" either: "three losses and no wins" or "three defeats and no victories"
 * "The teams from outside the top Italian football league system that managed to win the cup are Vado in 1922 (from Promozione[a]) and Napoli in 1962 (from Serie B)." ... Two teams from outside the top league have won the cup: Vado in 1922 (from Promozione[a]) and Napoli in 1962 (from Serie B). Unlink Vado (link at first appearance).
 * "On seven occasions, the result was a scoreless draw" goalless
 * "after extra time in the 2022 final." in extra time at the 2022 final
 * (infobox caption+picture) "Stadio Olimpico in Rome has hosted the Coppa Italia final in recent years" Not a particularly useful picture, does not actually depict a cup final match. There are images available in Commons - either a photo of the cup, or from one of the finals itself.  Depicting the stadium is not really the most prominent feature of this list.


 * Stadio_Olimpico_Roma_Coppa_Italia_2012.JPG This image actually depicts a Cup Final. Goldsztajn (talk) 04:35, 15 August 2022 (UTC)




 * Comment: Are you sure that "at the 2022 final" is actually better? In many other articles, including the FL articles like List of FA Cup Finals, List of European Cup and UEFA Champions League finals etc., its "in the final", not "at"... even the top tier English sources which would definitely use correct grammar, like BBC, are using "in the (2019) final" (1, 2), and UEFA also uses "after extra time in the 2018 final" (3), so "after extra time in the 2022 final" is better than "in extra time at the 2022 final". Snowflake91  (talk) 11:33, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi @Snowflake91@Dr Salvus - it was the structure of the sentence that appeared somewhat jarring to me (I guess I don't like the use of "beat"). I'm not particularly wedded to one version, personally I prefer "in" over "after", but of course that means avoiding a double use of "in", hence my suggested use of "at". If there's use of the form after/in with the other articles, I'm not opposed.  Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 22:05, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Goldsztajn I honestly think "in" is OK. It doesn't look weird to me. I've done all the changes except the one which was not standard in UK English. Can you support my nomination if you don't have anything else? Dr Salvus 22:10, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Dr Salvus For consistency's sake need to change "Inter Milan are" to "is". British English uses the singular for collective nouns when the entity being described is considered a singular unit - so a team wins a match (singular), whereas police are investigating (plural) a crime. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 22:42, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Goldsztajn ✅. Inter is and Juventus holds. Dr Salvus</b> 22:48, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Dr Salvus apologies for creating confusion - I didn't mean to suggest removing the infobox, I thought *only* the caption and image in the infobox could be improved. I think the infobox information was a very useful summary and would encourage its inclusion. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 23:08, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Goldsztajn I don't have my PC right now. Please, can you please insert it yourself? <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 23:18, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Nvm, have done it myself with my phone. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 23:26, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

I suspect that the alleged source "Almanacco Illustrato del Calcio – La storia 1898–2004" doesnt actually have attendances information for Coppa finals, it would make no sense that they would list attendances for 1960, 1963, and then nothing until 1974, and then again nothing until 1988. Looks like those attendances are taken from Italian Wikipedia, backed up with some random football book that no one has access to verifiy. If you actually have access to that book, can you scan one page or take a photo with a phone, for example the information that 1975 final had 40,000 spectators? If not, than simply delete those unverified attendances and list only the attendances since the 1990s, with some note that attendances prior that date are simply not available. Snowflake91 (talk) 11:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't have the access to it. I've asked at it.wiki whether somebody has it. I admit I was actually cheating. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 12:40, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I've deleted those unverified ones. Let's whait for them to say something at it.wiki. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 12:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅
 * Wikilink football in the first sentence
 * "74 Coppa Italia trophies have been assigned" - this is wording that would literally never be used by a native English speaker. I would simply say "74 finals have taken place"
 * Any reason for the inconsistent use of digits and words for numbers over 10 eg "There have been 40 single-match finals [....] On thirty occasions....."
 * "Inter Milan is the only team to win the Serie A, the Coppa Italia and the UEFA Champions League in the same year, in 2010" - source?
 * "Juventus holds the record [....] AC Milan have lost" - inconsistent use of singular/plural to refer to a club
 * "Of the teams which have participated in more than one final, Palermo and Hellas Verona, share......" - no reason for that comma after Verona
 * "with three defeats and no victories, each" - no reason for that comma either
 * "Number of teams	44" (in the infobox) - presumably this is the current number of teams but I am unsure of the value of showing this as I would imagine it has changed quite a lot over the years
 * It has not at all.

✅
 * "Team from outside the top Italian football league system" => "Team from outside the top level of the Italian football league system"
 * Per the comment above about attendances, the figures from 1988 to 2004 still seem to be sourced to a book which you admit you don't have access to. Are you 100% certain that this book sources the figures listed?
 * I'm adding the sources. No one has replied me at it.wiki. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 20:27, 16 August 2022 (UTC)


 * That's what I got on a first pass -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:59, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * worldfootball.net appears to have finals attendance records from 1987/88. I've not checked them all, but appear to match what is in the article.  Each one should be referenced. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 20:27, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It was what I was doing... <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 20:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @ChrisTheDude I've done them all but the number of teams. It does not change often. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 21:26, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm literally an idot: how was I able not to think that I would've been able to find attendances searching in archives of old newspapers? I've found much information from it. I've almost found info for all the 1980s finals. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 00:19, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * For the La Stampa sources you have added, the title should be the actual title of the newspaper article, not "La Stampa - Consultazione Archivio" e.g. the first one should be "La Roma è finalmente prima" -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 06:51, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @ChrisTheDude ✅. Can you support or is something else needed? <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 10:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:38, 24 August 2022 (UTC)


 * 1980–81 has the same link for both matches, the title and the date in the reference are correct but the URL is wrong, the second match should link to the 18 June 1981 newspaper – I dont know how to change the URL, because even if you switch to 18 June the URL stays the same at that website. Snowflake91  (talk) 11:20, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Neither do I. I've tried to do it, but nothing... However, there are still the date and the number of the page which can help <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 11:32, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm done adding almost all the attendances. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 21:31, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The reason I haven't added all is beacuse La Stampa had not written those particular information. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 21:32, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I have just removed the number of team information. I have done everything that you said. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 21:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @ChrisTheDude and @Goldsztajn is there anything to prevent you from supporting it? <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 20:42, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 21:25, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments from Kavyansh
Placeholder, Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 20:21, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Comments from NapHit
✅ Don't agree
 * "as well as four teams of Serie C." of should be from
 * "Inter Milan are the only team to win the Serie A..."
 * You don't need to say the Serie A in English, it's simply Serie A. Any native English speaker would refer to it as Serie A. NapHit (talk) 22:56, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Don't agree
 * " Juventus hold the record for winning the most titles (14)..." this could be worded better. How about Juventus hold the record for the most wins with 14
 * It's clunky the way it is right now. My suggestion is more succinct and easier to follow. NapHit (talk) 22:56, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Don't agree
 * "and playing in the most finals." –> and most appearances in the final
 * Again, 'playing in the most finals' isn't a phrase a native speaker would use. It's a very clunky sentence construction. NapHit (talk) 22:56, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

✅ ✅ ✅ That's all from me. NapHit (talk) 22:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * " AC Milan have lost the greatest number of finals..." -> AC Milan have lost the most finals
 * "Seven finals have been decided by penalty shoot-outs..." this should be penalty shoot-out as there's only one shoot out in a final and having it as plural here suggests there are multiple shoot outs per final
 * "who beat Juventus 4–2 in extra time at the 2022 final." at should be in
 * <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 21:31, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * What "partly done", you literally didn't change ANYTHING that was suggested above by NapHit. Snowflake91  (talk) 22:55, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, you haven't actually made the changes you've said you have. It's poor form to put done when you haven't actually done what you said you've done. Especially as I've taken time to go through the list. NapHit (talk) 11:09, 10 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I've done the fixes, hope its okay now - also changed "in extra time" to "after extra time" to avoid repetition of "in" word, if thats okay. Actually it was intially like that, but reviewer Goldsztajn above suggested to change it from "after extra time in the 2022 final" to "in extra time at the 2022 final". Snowflake91  (talk) 23:27, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I did the changes but they weren't saved. <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Dr</b> <b style="font-family: Verdana; color: #6633FF;">Salvus</b> 06:03, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries, I'll take your word at that. Thanks for actioning my comments , happy to support now they've been addressed. NapHit (talk) 11:09, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Source review passed; promoting. -- Pres N  21:14, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.