Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Major League Baseball players with a home run in their first major league at bat/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC).

List of Major League Baseball players with a home run in their first major league at bat

 * Nominator(s): Bloom6132 (talk) 09:09, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel its structure and formatting mirrors the other baseball lists I have successfully nominated to FL and it now meets all 6 FL criteria. —Bloom6132 (talk) 09:09, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:40, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments

Can take this later in the day. Therapyisgood (talk) 13:43, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * File:Tyler Austin on September 8, 2016.jpg, File:Aaron Judge on September 8, 2016.jpg, File:Garyga.jpg, File:Daniel Nava on July 15, 2010.jpg, File:Adam Wainright.jpg need personality rights templates at the Commons.


 * Not a big deal to me because someone reviewed it but the source of File:Daniel Nava on July 15, 2010.jpg is dead. Can you try to archive?


 * I can see that File:Adam Wainright.jpg is OK but Commons:Template:Flickrreview should be added to the Commons page for a reviewer or an admin to review, or a bot.


 * Not required but would suggest archiving the source for File:1898 Michael Griffin.jpeg and File:Hoyt-wilhelm.jpg


 * Although MLB was founded in its current iteration in 1903, statistics from the National League, American League and American Association that were recorded before that year have been retroactively recognized as major league. Do you have a source for this? Who recognizes them as major league? I'm surprised the Players' League isn't in this although they were found by MLB to be a major league in 1968 (see Lewis).
 * No source required per FL List of Major League Baseball players with a .400 batting average in a season (promoted in 2017). —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * One hundred and twenty-five different players have hit a home run in their first at bat of a Major League Baseball (MLB) game to date I think "to date" isn't how we're supposed to demarcate time, try using Template:As of
 * Again, permissible under FL List of Major League Baseball single-inning home run leaders (promoted April 2020). —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Both players are recognized by whom?
 * Major League Baseball. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * their first and their last major league at bat. not sure we need the second their.
 * Removed. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 *  Paul Gillespie and John Miller perhaps add "first baseman" to John Miller ie first baseman John Miller to differentiate Miller from the pitcher or Ox Miller.
 * Brackets are not included in prose text unless more than one person of the same name is mentioned. This is not the case here. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Paul Gillespie and John Miller are the only players to hit a home run in both their first and their last major league at bat.[12][13] Those were the only home runs that Miller ended up hitting during his stint in the MLB I think you can combine these with a semicolon
 * That would take the word count to 42. I prefer not to go over 30 words in a sentence. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Another user merged the two sentences, but dropped the total word count to 36 by rephrasing. I've kept that change. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, Gary Gaetti, with 360, hit more home runs perhaps "has hit". As of when?
 * Not necessary, because an FL is supposed to be up to date per WP:FLCR. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Indicates the player was a pitcher maybe "Indicates the player was primarily a pitcher", certainly could have played other positions in career.
 * Doesn't matter if he could have played other positions in career. What matters here is the position he played in this specific game (which is what this symbol covers).


 * Indicates the home run was hit on the first career pitch of the pitcher or of the batter?
 * Of course the batter. Otherwise this list would've been titled "List of Major League Baseball pitchers who have given up a home run in their first major league at bat". —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Indicates the home runs were hit in consecutive at bats could be more specific for which home runs, ie first in a plate appearance if I'm implying right.
 * First home runs in an at bat (not plate appearance, which include walks, HBPs, sac flies, etc.). Should I re-word to "… home runs were hit in consecutive first at bats"? —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Player is active as of what season?
 * As of the most recent season. Again, not necessary, because an FL is supposed to be up to date. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure note E is essential, ie the Red Stocking switched leagues a few times but we don't note that on Tebeau.
 * I still think it's best to clarify the league switch. I don't want some editor down the line who wasn't aware of the league switch changing it to AL thinking that I had gotten it wrong.  I can change it to a hidden comment if you think that'll be better. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Have you looked for the times for the box scores for Tebeau and Griffin?
 * The box scores are not available. Here are the links from Retrosheet and Baseball-Reference.com to prove it. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

I suppose I will oppose for now due to the lack of inclusion of the Players' League in these stats even though the PL was a major league. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:24, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've addressed some of your comments. The others – I'll leave it to the FL director or his delegates to decide whether they pertain to FL criteria (many of them don't, in my humble opinion). —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The exclusion of the PL in this list goes against 3A. Some of the comments (ie "That would take the word count to 42. I prefer not to go over 30 words in a sentence") amount to IDONTLIKEIT. Files' personality rights should be added per 5B. My oppose to the list stands. Will not comment further. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:58, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * "Will not comment further" Good – as I said above, I'll leave it to the FL director or his delegates to decide whether they pertain to FL criteria. And FYI, DONTLIKEIT is an essay (not policy or guideline) that applies to deletion discussions, which this isn't. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:56, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The FL delegate and another editor have both stated that excluding the PL is fine and does not contravene FL criteria. I've done my best to address most of your remaining concerns. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Umm, "Major League Baseball" is capitalized, which means that it refers to players in the leagues collectively known as Major League Baseball (MLB), and not to other leagues which are considered by historians to be "major leagues", such as the Pioneer League. For this reason, Therapyisgood's complaint is baseless. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm leaning towards pulling the plug on this one and nominating afresh. I feel this is being opposed on grounds that are beyond the scope of FL criteria. Frankly, some of the comments are bordering on absurd and have never been demanded of me in all my previous 24 successful FLCs (including 4 promoted this year). I, of course, assume good faith, given the fact that the reviewer only started editing in November 2019 and may not be all that familiar with the FLC process. However, the fact that they took me to ANI citing "General dickishness" (which was rightly SNOWCLOSE'd 17 minutes later) reinforces my belief as to the ridiculousness of these comments. What do you guys think? —Bloom6132 (talk) 02:59, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Alright, a couple points:
 * Starting with content: to hit the big one off the bat, I feel that since this list is explicitly for "MLB", not "major league" baseball, that it's okay that it covers the leagues that became MLB and not the "major" leagues that did not. Might be nice to expand that note to mention why NL, AL, and AA are included (because they formed the MLB), but you don't need to add the Player's League.
 * Expanded note. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Not wanting to go over 30 words per sentence is... unusual, but as long as everything is grammatically correct there's nothing wrong with not wanting to join concepts with a semicolon.
 * Another user merged the two sentences, but dropped the total word count to 36 by rephrasing. I've kept that change. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Not content: "I don't have to do this because I didn't have to in a prior FL" is not a valid argument. A successful FLC is an indication that reviewers didn't have a problem with something; it doesn't mean that you are exempt from editors asking questions in the future. It's completely reasonable to ask for a source for a statement even if it was unsourced in prior FLs- if you don't think it needs to be sourced, explain why. As someone who also has a large FL series I know it can be frustrating to have a concern raised on something that has been fine for years and a dozen lists, but sometimes it happens and sometimes it's valid. FLs aren't perfect.
 * Please don't dismiss reviewers' concerns due to reasons outside of those concerns (e.g. because of their "newness" or ANI drama)- if the concerns are valid/invalid, they are such regardless of whatever else is going on with that user. -- Pres N  15:14, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. I've addressed your first point and the second point got resolved by another editor who improved the sentence by merging and rephrasing.  I've also addressed most of the reviewer's other comments, but I feel the rest (i.e. re images) is beyond my expertise.  Should I withdraw this nom? —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I added the templates they asked for; unable to archive the source for the one image. -- Pres N  16:33, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Director comment – Sorry I didn't get back to you before. I see that Pres has given you some assistance. If you still want me to withdraw the nom, let me know and I'll close it over the weekend, when I do my next batch of closures (assuming Pres or TRM don't get around to it first). If not, I'd be happy to let it run, as it hasn't been open for too long and could use more time for a consensus to develop one way or the other (especially on the Players League issue). Regarding the image, I'd treat it like we normally handle Flickr images. If it was reviewed in good faith while the link was alive and the photo isn't an obvious copyvio the reviewer missed, my inclination would be to say that the image is okay for use.  Giants2008  ( Talk ) 22:42, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks and no worries! I think I'll let this nom run and see how consensus develops.  Hopefully that'll give the reviewer a reasonable amount of time to revisit the feedback they gave. —Bloom6132 (talk) 09:26, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * You could add "both" after George Tebeau and Mike Griffin in the lede
 * Added. —Bloom6132 (talk) 06:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The sentence On the other hand, Gary Gaetti, with 360, hit more home runs than any other player to hit one in their first at bat. seems awkward, mainly in the way it refers to home-runs. I can’t think of a better way to reword it, and it’s not absolutely necessary, but I think it could be improved.
 * I've put the home run total within brackets – hope that works better. —Bloom6132 (talk) 06:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

That’s all I noticed right now. ~ HAL  333  06:04, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Nice job on the notes - they’re really extensive.
 * thanks for the comments! I hope they've been addressed satisfactorily. —Bloom6132 (talk) 06:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Support ~ HAL  333  23:47, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Harrias
That's it from me. I will claim WikiCup points for this review, and would appreciate if you would consider taking a look at Featured list candidates/PCA Young Player of the Year/archive1 if you get a chance. Harrias talk 09:15, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks for the feedback! I hope they've been addressed satisfactorily. —Bloom6132 (talk) 14:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Support my concerns have been resolved, and I'm happy that this meets the FLC criteria. Harrias  talk 07:36, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

in addition to giving input on Harrias' last unresolved comment, could I please trouble one of you to give this a dedicated source review? (if you are of the opinion that this is close to passing) Cheers! —Bloom6132 (talk) 00:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Source review – The reliability of the references looks fine to me. One small formatting issue sticks out: ref 2 could use a page number, if one is available, for verifiability. If it's one of the more recent Google Books links that doesn't include the page numbers, including the chapter name in the cite would work fine for me. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 22:28, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, Google Books doesn't have a preview of either the page numbers or chapters. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:40, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In that case, is a replacement that is more easily verifiable for the readers possible? Giants2008  ( Talk ) 01:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I haven't come across any. If I did, I would've used it instead. —Bloom6132 (talk) 02:03, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Don't like the missing page number, but going to go ahead and promote. -- Pres N  22:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.