Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Olympic medalists in figure skating/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 22:23, 11 August 2009.

List of Olympic medalists in figure skating

 * Nominator(s): Parutakupiu (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

This list is among the biggest and most important lists covered by the WikiProject Olympics, concerning one of the oldest and most popular Olympic sports. Before I gave it a major revamping, the page only displayed the medalist tables. As you can check, it now has a reasonable lead, fully sourced, giving context to the article and the lists; a statistics section, as per similar recently featured lists (e.g. List of Olympic medalists in badminton, List of Olympic medalists in snowboarding); and plenty of correctly licensed images. I believe this lacks little to attain a little star, but it's your call. Parutakupiu (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The first general ref needs to be formatted (publisher, accessdate).
 * Done.
 * We shouldn't be using Encyclopædia Britannica (ref 6) or other tertiary sources, except for overview statements. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Source replaced. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:19, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments from
 * General
 * Dabs and external links check out fine.
 * Lead
 * Figure skating was first contested as an Olympic sport at the 1908 Summer Olympics, in London, United Kingdom. -- Is the link to the UK really needed?
 * Removed.
 * It was featured a second time at the Antwerp Games,[2] after which it was permanently transferred to the program of the Winter Olympic Games, first held in 1924 in Chamonix, France. -- Maybe adding a link to the 1924 Winter Olympics?
 * Link added.
 * Swedish figure skater Gilles Grafström—who entered in four consecutive Olympics, from the 1920 Summer Games to the 1932 Winter Games—is the overall medal leader in the sport, having collected a total of four medals. -- Links to the respective games?
 * Added link for 1932 Games; the 1920 Games already have a link in "Antwerp Games".
 * Three other active National Olympic Committees (NOCs) own 20 medals: Austria, Russia and Canada.  -- Why not link to the other countries at the Olympics?
 * They already exist in earlier instances.
 * Medals per year
 * Not that you have to do this, but how about adding "0s" or "dashes" for the empty cells?
 * "0s" don't mess with the sorting but they fill too much the table, almost obscuring the main figures. Dashes don't have that visual impact, but they do mess a bit with the sorting function.
 * You could always do it like this &mdash;, that way it looks like "&mdash;" but sorts like "0" and you get the best of both options. MPJ-DK (talk) 08:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thought about that too. It is the best shot, despite the table script getting huge by adding hundreds of those. I'll see if I can use AutoWikiBrowser for that. Thanks. Parutakupiu (talk) 15:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't necessarily have to do it. I've seen previous lists fly without it, so its your choice. Just let us know what you are planning to do.-- T ru  c o   503 16:04, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I added en-dashes and removed the table sorting, to become consistent with other similar articles. Parutakupiu (talk) 00:49, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I like it =)-- T ru  c o   503 17:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * References
 * Encyclopædia Britannica has a link, publisher-- T ru  c o   503 19:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Already switched it as per previous reviewer. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:19, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified; list now meets WP:WIAFL. -- T ru  c o   503 17:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Support – Now that the one table has had a format agreed upon by all, I think the standards are met. The red links don't bother me that much, and they can easily be made blue if consensus requires it.  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 23:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Oppose for the moment.
 * Links, in the first column, you have a lot of redlink "details", most of these can be easily made blue. Take 2002 in the pairs for example, I found.
 * It is a the long-term goal of the Olympics WikiProject to create articles for those red links in the same fashion as the ones created for the most recent Games, which will serve as template for the older Games. Besides, those links are formatted so that they give rise to an adequately named article concerning that exact event, not pointing to sections in a a broader article. They are useful red links as per WP:RED, imo.
 * Well, you can turn Figure skating at the 2002 Winter Olympics - Pairs blue by creating a redirect to Figure_skating_at_the_2002_Winter_Olympics with R to section. Then, when your project gets around to creating it, then it can be made into a full article. As it is, there is no need for redlinks as Wikipedia already carries the related information. Woody (talk) 10:00, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * For the medals per year table, what does the colour signify? Can we have a key? Also, per WP:ACCESSIBILITY/WP:COLOUR colour shouldn't be "the only way used to convey important information."
 * I added a small text before the table explaining the significance of the dashes and the colored cells. Is is enough?
 * No it isn't. You still have a large number of cells that are completely empty apart from some colour. To some colour blind people or people using screen readers etc they will just be empty cells with nothing to signify why. Generally tables should not have empty cells. Woody (talk) 10:00, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Filled each shaded cell with a character that is explained in a key I added above the table. Parutakupiu (talk) 20:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Apart from those, it does look good. Images are appropriate and licensed, sources look good, the lead looks good. Regards, Woody (talk) 09:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. Parutakupiu (talk) 09:48, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Everything else looks great, but please remove the xs from the Medals per year table. They make the table look very full, cluttered, and ugly and are out of line with all other medalist lists. Keep the key, but even for those who can't see the colors, an empty cell represents nonparticipation because there are only gray empties and no white empties. Reywas92 Talk 18:54, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with this assessment. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:57, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Whilst I do agree that it does look a bit cluttered, generally you should not have empty cells in a table. A coloured background does not count as filling a table for all of the accessibility reasons mentioned. By your reasoning there is no need to have the gray in the table at all given that empty cells are their own indicators. That others have failed to live up to guidelines and policies in the past does not mean that you shouldn't abide by them in the future. Regards, Woody (talk) 19:31, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I really don't know where people got the idea in the first place that tables shouldn't have empty cells. They look just fine to me. And you're right, you don't even need the gray, though I do think it's appropriate. Otherwise those should be the ones with the dashes and no medals is a zero (But don't take that as a suggestion!!) How about at least something smaller and less ugly and cluttering than an x, then, like a small dot? It's just really unnecessary. Reywas92 Talk  19:57, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I've been further from removing the table altogether. It's giving more problems than what it's worth, at least to this specific article. I'm feeling a bit like the guy whose arms are being pulled to opposite sides. Please, what layout do you think can solve all your concerns? Do I keep the gray cells with the "x"? Do I replace it with a more discrete character? Do I remove the color altogether and display information with another character? Parutakupiu (talk) 22:57, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I suppose this does place you in an awkward position, my apologies for that. The colour is up to you: it doesn't have to be there, I don't mind if it is or if it isn't. I will say that I think it isn't much use when you already have a symbol in the table. I don't particularly mind what symbol you have in there: if you think there is a less intrusive one, try it out. Regards, Woody (talk) 09:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't need to apologize, it comes with being a reviewer. The problem is that there isn't any guideline regarding table presentation, more specifically whether empty cells should exist or not... One thing you're right: color becomes accessory when info is also conveyed by another way.Parutakupiu (talk) 09:48, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I think the color is a lot easier to see than the cluttered extra symbols, even for those who can't see it because it's empty. Help:Table says "For empty cells, use the non-breaking space  as content to ensure that the cells are displayed." From that I see that there's nothing wrong with having empty cells. However I think with updates over the years it is unnecessary to have the space - they always show up fine for a wikitable. And please don't remove the useful table.  Reywas92 Talk  14:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Support For the redlinked "details", I believe they're secondary links and can stay red. Good thing is that all medalists are blue. As for the gray cells, I'll leave it to the nominator/main contributor to decide what to do; though, I'd prefer the way it is now...with those x's.-- Crzycheetah 01:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.