Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Speed Grapher episodes/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Matthewedwards 01:45, 13 March 2009.

List of Speed Grapher episodes

 * Nominator(s): ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c )

Another episode list for your consideration. A minor warning: the contents of this list are quite disturbing. To quote one reviewer, "It's dark, the fetish angle has the potential to make folks very uncomfortable, and it's violent." Now that I've given fair warning, good luck! ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR ( t &bull; c ) 03:46, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved comments
 * Make use of the episodelink parameter of the cite episode template.
 * Done. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "ou" -> "ō"
 * Switched. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "BREAK THE COCOON" - Should be title-cased.
 * De-capped. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "FUNimation" -> "Funimation" (though this may be a borderline case...)
 * De-capped. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Don't use italics within quotations."
 * I assume you mean the references? I've removed the italics. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you make the romanizations yourself? I'm no expert either but I'd romanize 唸る札束 as "Unaru Satsutaba" instead of "Unagi Satsu da na". Maybe ask an expert for help?
 * What is a "fetish club"?
 * Wikilinked. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The English adaptation was licensed to Funimation" - Without giving a date, the use of past tense suggests that Funimation no longer holds that license.
 * Changed tense. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "a box set was released." - What's in it?
 * Clarified. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What about Region 2? Did Gonzo release it to DVD?
 * Added info. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "U.S." - Single occurence... Won't hurt to write it out.
 * Written out. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ""Girls on Film" by Duran Duran served as the opening for all of the episodes." - Wrong tense. It still is the opening, is it not?
 * Changed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The episodes have three official pieces of theme music" - I wasn't aware that episodes could own music pieces. (multiple occurences)
 * Fixed wording. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The episodes have three official pieces of theme music" - They are "official" opposed to what?
 * Fixed when I changed the wording for the previews point. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The opening theme in the English DVD releases was therefore replaced by "Shutter Speed" by Shinkichi Mitsumune.[6]" - What was used as opening when "aired on the Independent Film Channel"?
 * Noted and cited. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The opening theme in the English DVD releases was therefore replaced by "Shutter Speed" by Shinkichi Mitsumune.[6]" - I don't see [6] citing any of this.
 * Fixed. I had the citations in the wrong places. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Speed Grapher is not based on any other media but has spawned both a manga and a light novel." - I don't like the use of the word "spawned" here. It's unnecessarily metaphorical. It's also not necessary to say that it is not based on another media unless the reader has reason to make such a (false) assumption. And I'd like to see a citation for both manga and light novel.
 * Fixed and cited. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Speed Grapher is an original work and has been adapted into both a manga and a light novel." -- Goodraise (talk) 22:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 23:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The six DVD compilations" - What six DVD compilations?
 * Tweaked wording. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You're using "The six DVD compilations" as if you had introduced them already. Your tweak didn't change that. It's weird to read. How about something more like "who released it to Region 1 in six DVD compilations, each containing four episodes, between July 2006 and March 2007 and on iTunes"? -- Goodraise (talk) 22:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Moved some stuff around, hopefully fixing the issue. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 23:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "betwee" -> "between"
 * Deleted that section anyway. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 23:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "theme music, one opening" -> "theme music: one opening"
 * Changed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 23:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see it. -- Goodraise (talk) 23:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "twelve use s "Hill of Poppies""
 * Removed that and the other instance of it. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 23:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see it. -- Goodraise (talk) 23:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Independent Film Channel was therefore "Shutter Speed"" - Tense.
 * "The opening theme for both the English DVD releases and the aired episodes on the Independent Film Channel was is therefore "Shutter Speed""
 * Fixed both. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 23:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see it. -- Goodraise (talk) 23:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Finally fixed. I could have sworn I fixed that. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Speed Grapher also aired on the Independent Film Channel" - "Also"? Where else did it air. This is an unexpected turn in the prose. It's not sensible.
 * Tweaked. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 20:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole second paragraph seems a bit chaotic. Are you attempting to give events in chronological order? I'd rather sort by media or region/language. -- Goodraise (talk) 22:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've sorted it by media and it looks a little better.... ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 23:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Region 2 releases should go first. -- Goodraise (talk) 23:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Err, clarified. That was idiotic of me. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "the members of the fetish club, the Roppongi Club."
 * Fixed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The English licensor should be named before the English network.
 * Put "bentō" in italics.
 * Done. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Suitengu tries to collect s money from a member of his club"
 * Removed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Expand contractions.
 * Done. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What is a "secret club in tandem"?
 * That's a bit taken out of context, but I've reworded it. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "At the Tennōzu Mansion, Saiga frees Kagura escapes." - Is this missing an "and"?
 * Yep, nice catch. Added. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What are "Euphorics"?
 * Clarified. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why does he "reflect[...] the shot off of a piece of glass"?
 * Clarified. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The second paragraph could use a bit of prose optimization. (3 "also" in 4 sentences is a bad sign.)
 * I'm working on the second paragraph, but I will probably need someone else to look at it. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The single sentences look odd, but its better organized this way. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose, as I can't get past a single summary without finding these kinds of prose issues and I haven't even read past ep4. -- Goodraise (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The "goddess" kisses him, however, and Suitengu orders Saiga's death." - Why not "The "goddess" kisses him and Suitengu orders Saiga's death"? What is the relation of the kiss and the order to kill?
 * Clarified. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The "goddess" kisses him, interrupting the ceremony so Suitengu orders Saiga's death." - This is still not clear enough. -- Goodraise (talk) 10:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Expanded in ep1. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I still don't see the relation between the order to kill and the kiss. -- Goodraise (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not immediately clear in the episode either. However, the viewer later learns that Kagura's kiss confers desired abilities, so Suitengu's initial reaction is to kill someone who has gained the powers without his permission. Not really sure how I could work this into the summary... ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * How can an emtpy lunch box make you ill?
 * Clarified. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "After she arrives at school, Kagura falls ill from malnourishment because her mother has been giving her an empty bentō every day." - The problem isn't solved yet. I assume: She falls ill because her mother doesn't give her enough food. Giving her an empty bentou has another reason. Perhaps it is to hide that malnourishment from the teachers and fellow students? -- Goodraise (talk) 10:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Clarified in ep2. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I still don't see how "giving her an empty bentō every day" can cause malnourishment. How is mentioning the bentō adding anything to that paragraph? -- Goodraise (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The only way the viewer can tell that Shinsen is malnourishment Kagura is through the empty boxes and the lack of lunch. Kagura doesn't ever eat lunch, it seems. The discovery that the bentō is empty is key to the viewer understanding her malnourishment. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is "goddess" sometimes quoted and sometimes not?
 * She's not really a goddess, so whenever I refer to her as such out of context (i.e. not mentioning the club). ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 04:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not good. If she isn't really a goddess, then you need to explain what it means to be that club's "goddess". -- Goodraise (talk) 10:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Clarified in ep4. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see it clarified there. Even if I did, explaining it somewhere later in the article isn't good enough. If you introduce a term from within the fictional world, you have to explain what it means on first usage. Just putting it in quotation marks doesn't solve the problem. -- Goodraise (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It isn't explained in the first episode. She's called "goddess" throughout the episode, and no explanation is given. Would it be easier to drop the quotations altogether? ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Is he already in jail at the beginning of the episode? If no reason for his being there is given, you could point that out to avoid making the reader think you (as the writer of the summary) are withholding information from them.
 * Nope. He's out taking photos of politicians at the start of the episode, so that doesn't fit either. The plot holes are of the episode itself. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "to earn enough money to survive" - Perhaps change this to "for a living"?
 * Changed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "causing a strange reaction in his body" - How can you tell? What is it the viewer actually sees happening?
 * Well, he begins twitching and his body, especially the area around his eye, begins changing color, but it really doesn't seem important enough to mention. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why are you at first withholding that the goddess is Kagura? Does her transformation change her so much that she is unrecognizable?
 * Kagura isn't introduced until the second episode, and her appearance as a goddess is significantly different from her normal appearance. Personally, I realized that she was the goddess purely by inferring (and by the fact that there really is only one female lead in this), but it isn't explicitly shown or stated until later. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "When Kagura returns home, she discovers her mother having sex with her teacher in her room." - What does it matter in which room they're doing it?
 * Removed the excess info. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Suitengu makes Kagura fall asleep and return to her form as the Club's goddess." - How are these actions accomplished?
 * He whispers something that seems to cause her to fall asleep. Some kind of conditioning, I'd guess? Information added. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "his wounds oddly heal" - What is "odd" about his wounds healing?
 * I would find it odd if someone's wounds spontaneously closed up and healed. Changed "oddly" to "quickly". ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "When he finally is able to pause to rest, he discovers that the camera has not changed: he has." - What makes him realize that?
 * I didn't find that to be important enough to mention, considering he just finds sticky fluids coming out of his hand onto the camera. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "However, Saiga unearths information about Suitengu and the Roppongi Club at the same time." - Is he unearthing information about those two at the same time or is he unearthing information at the same time as "Suitengu and his men discover the identity of Saiga and begin to track him down"? And how is the time he does it relevant in the first place?
 * At the same time as "Suitengu blah blah blah". Clarified. They plan to attack at the exact same time, so it seems coincidental that their timings match. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Under the billboard bearing Saiga's famed photo, Kagura and Saiga reunite." - What billboard bearing what famed photo of his? Perhaps you mean: "Under a billboard bearing a famed photo of Saiga's, Kagura and Saiga reunite."
 * Fixed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see why most of these points need to be clarified, barring the important ones, like Kagura's "goddess" status. I just restated what happened, but I'm really in no place to explain why, nor do I feel it is necessary in an episode summary. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: per the official TV Asahi site, this show was aired on Thursdays at 26:40, which rolls over to Friday 02:40; the Japanese airdates should be moved up one day. —tan³ tx 01:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it really work that way? The current ref I have says otherwise. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 01:50, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a matter of actual date versus marketing date; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Archive 23. —tan³ tx 03:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, changed. That's odd and incredibly annoying. Changed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  ( t &bull; c ) 04:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this something that can be changed on your previously promoted FLs? Check. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:07, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose from The writing needs work, and I'm not even referring to grammar or conciseness. My main concern is that readers will find it hard to follow what is going on. Find someone who has never read the article. Ask them to look at the it and identify/fix the ambiguities.
 * "into both a manga and a light novel."
 * Removed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Funimation released Speed Grapher to Region 1 as six DVD compilations" "as"-->in.
 * Replaced. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "box set containing "-->box set that contains
 * Changed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "The series aired between March 7 and August 15, 2008 for viewers in the United States." Understood.
 * Changed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The first summary needs reorganization. The writing isn't bad on the clause level, but the sequence of events is poorly presented and readers will be utterly confused. Here are some of the issues:
 * "Tatsumi Saiga, a former war photographer, has been photographing politicians to survive." Is there a reason why photographing politicians would enable him to survive? Many readers, including me, will take the "to survive" phrase literally. Is it supposed to be that way?
 * Fixed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Then, all of a sudden, after background on Saiga, we have "Katsuya Shirogane, a dancer, breaks a girl's arm for being stiff." What?
 * You know, I blame this entirely on the fragmented nature of the episodes themselves. I will be needing a bit of time to fix this issue as I need to rethink the way these episodes are written. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Even more confusing is what comes next: "A policewoman gets Saiga out of jail." When did he land in jail in the first place? Why?
 * I don't actually know. He is never seen being thrown in jail. A scene after the dancer, we see him in jail with no explanation, so I don't exactly know how to fix this. I gather that he was thrown in jail for taking pictures of a politician, but that's a bit WP:OR and I'd err on the side of caution here. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Saiga manages to make his way into the club while pursuing a Diet member. At the center of a ritual, he manages to photograph the club's "goddess." Logical punctuation, the quotation marks should be inside the period. The repetition of "manages to" is annoying, especially since it's not really necessary in either instance.
 * I blame my former English teachers. Fixed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "furious at his club has been discovered" You mean "that", not "at".
 * Fixed. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Suitengu, furious at his club has been discovered, orders that Saiga be captured and killed, but the "goddess" kisses him before Saiga is beheaded, causing a strange reaction in his body. " Don't leave readers hanging. What does happen to Saiga? Dabomb87 (talk) 21:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This episode doesn't reveal his fate, but ends with him madly twitching... I can add what happens, but it's not in this episode at all. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR  (t &bull; c) 21:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

In any event, I withdraw this nomination. This clearly needs more time and a few more eyes before it even has hope of passing. I need to spend some time and reframe this entire episode list, as the ideas and concepts behind the series are truly quite strange for those who have not watched it. Thanks for the comments, and apologies for the premature nomination. Further comments can either be dropped at my talk page or at the talk page of the list. ɳ OCTURNE ɳ OIR (t &bull; c) 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.