Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Toronto Blue Jays managers/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:The Rambling Man 20:17, 30 July 2008.

List of Toronto Blue Jays managers
previous FLC (08:36, 17 July 2008)

I am re-nominating this article because I believe it actually deserves to be promoted to featured list material. Annoyomous 24  20:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Support --Crzycheetah 07:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Object. The list says Bobby Cox has 293 losses but the reference says 292. The list says Jimy Williams has 522 games coached but the reference says 523. maclean 00:52, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * They must have miswrote it. I fixed it on the table. Annoyomous  24  01:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The mantra at Verifiability is "verifiability, not truth" which is why we insist on Reliable sources. I understand that Baseball-Reference.com has been accepted in previous FLs as reliable, however, we will require a better source here to verify this list. maclean 02:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I actually added up the wins and losses and it adds up to what is on the table. Also, there is a second reference which backs up baseball-reference.com. The second reference is more reliable from the stats stand point. Annoyomous  24  02:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's considered WP:OR. You need to change current references #5 and 6.--Crzycheetah 07:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * CHANGED REFERENCES FOR BOBBY COX AND JIMY WILLIAMS! -- K. Annoyomous  24  20:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I corrected the one inconsistency. The list looks good, but I find the introduction does not demonstrate a command of the subject, specifically why/how managers of the Blue Jays changed over time. --maclean 03:59, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I'm not good at copyediting and I seriously do not know how to explain it. -- K. Annoyomous  24  GO LAKERS! 02:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Support! I give this list my conditional support, based on the outcome of the comment below. I am now prepared to put my full support behind this list. Congratulations! KV5 •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  00:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC) Now withholding support until the issue below is resolved. KV5 •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!
 * I now have a concern (again) that the list does not conform to MOS:LINK, but per WP:IAR will not withhold my support because of it. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  12:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sortable tables need all potential links to be wikilinked. But fear not, the list will shortly receive its star - I'd like to see if maclean needs further work on it. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:52, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm working on an addition to the intro: maclean 04:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Then I guess I should go fix that at List of Philadelphia Phillies managers because no one said that to me after the table got sorted. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  13:01, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Compared with the list of managers on the Blue Jays website, this list seems to be missing 2 people. maclean 19:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you are absolutely right. Baseball-Reference.com doesn't list them either, that's very unusual. These managers who were listed on the Jays website aren't listed anywhere on Baseball-Reference as having managed the Jays. Let me take a quick look at something and I'll get back to you. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  19:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that those two managers were only interims and their records were counted in the regular managers record. -- K. Annoyomous  24  GO LAKERS! 19:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know about that. They were both coaches at the time they were supposed to have been managing, but if we can't prove anything, then I don't know what we do about sourcing it. The 3 games Rojas supposedly managed would have made sense if Martinez were suspended at any point, as he was Martinez' bench coach, but I can't find any confirmation of a suspension. In addition, there is NO information that I can find about a Harry Warner related to baseball. We don't have an article on him; the only Harry Warners are a science fiction guy and the movie guy. One's a recluse, and the other was dead before the Blue Jays existed. If this can't be fixed, I can't in good conscience support what may very well be an incomplete list. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  19:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "O my gosh...I really hate this. Des this mean there is no way we can make this into a featured list or is there any way he can fix this problem? -- K. Annoyomous  24  GO LAKERS! 20:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It just means that some explanation needs to be found for why Cookie Rojas and Harry Warner are listed as managers on the official website and not on Baseball-Reference. A reason has to be found for why the sources don't agree, and essentially it has to be proven which one is correct. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  20:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Not 100% commensurate with the issues here but it appears that there are some pretty significant issues that must be resolved. I'd suggest this list is withdrawn and these issues sorted out outside the FLC process (after all, this isn't WP:PR). The Rambling Man (talk) 20:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I concur, especially considering that this list didn't go through a peer review before its two FLC noms. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  20:08, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

After 23 days of trying to get this article into a FL status, you finally tell me to PR this article. Seriously? I just want this over with. -- K. Annoyomous  24  GO LAKERS! 20:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I can confirm that Harry Warner took over for about 2 weeks as Hartsfield was assisting his ailing wife in hospital. -maclean 20:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Closing note - this list needed a peer review but good editors helped out. Despite that it still lingers in the realms of uncertainty so I'm archiving this discussion and would encourage both reviewers and nominators to work offline on it to bring it to FL standard before re-submitting it at WP:FLC. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I will continue this final discussion at the talk page of the list. Reviewers, come join it. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  21:01, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.