Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Tour de France general classification winners/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:50, 6 October 2009.

List of Tour de France general classification winners

 * Nominator(s): NapHit (talk) 13:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe that after a peer review it meets the criteria necessary to become a featured list. NapHit (talk) 13:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

My comments have been satisfactorily resolved. KV5 ( Talk  •  Phils ) 13:22, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Support – After the improvements suggested by everyone were made, this list has turned out well.  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 20:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:58, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Comments
 * What source are you using for the data in the main table? --Jpeeling (talk) 12:34, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The main source is given below "general" in the reference section. (Jacques Augendre, Tour de France Guide Historique) All information of the table is there, maybe except the number of stage wins.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:21, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If that's the case then I'm concerned as I checked race distances from that source and there's a lot (about half) of differences. --Jpeeling (talk) 16:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed the race distances, thanks for pointing that out NapHit (talk) 20:48, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Still discrepancies between race distances for 1908, 1909 and 2002. --Jpeeling (talk | contribs) 22:03, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

--Jpeeling (talk | contribs) 22:03, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There's some other discrepancies: time - 1903, 1904, 1929, 1932, 1935, 1948, 1950, 1962, 1968, 1978, 1989 and 2006. Margins - 1903, 1914, 1919, 1932, 1979.
 * There's nothing on the PDF about the points system, what source is used for that data?
 * Is there a source for the number of stage wins?
 * About the discrepancies: The table in the reference apparently has some mistakes. There is also an official Tour archive. I checked the values with this table, and the status is now:
 * 1903: Corrected value in article.
 * 1904: The general reference table differs by one second. A description on the letour-archive gives the winning time as 96 h 5' 55" 3/5, so this probably has something to do with rounding.
 * 1914: The general reference table is off by 10 seconds, probably a typo.
 * 1919: The general reference table is off by 10 minutes, also for the number three. I find no other source that agrees to the general reference table.
 * 1929: The general reference table is off (by one second).
 * 1932: The general reference table is off, both with time and margin.
 * 1935: Corrected value in article.
 * 1948: Corrected value in article.
 * 1950: The general reference table is wrong. Off by 10 seconds, probably a typo.
 * 1962: The general reference table is wrong. They typed 45 where they meant 54.
 * 1968: The general reference table is wrong. Don't know why. See also this newspaper article from 1968 that gives the results.
 * 1978: Corrected value in article.
 * 1979: The general reference table is wrong: The time for the winner is 103h 6' 50", and probably this confused them to make the margin 6' 50".
 * 1989: Corrected value in article.
 * 2006: The general reference table has the wrong value for total time: it shows the time of Floyd Landis, the original winner who was disqualified.
 * For all values from 1929 I can give multiple independent sources that show that the current article has the right values. They all agree to the official Tour archive. Unfortunately, they were not really good in condensing this into one table, so Wikipedia can do better. All sources (except the general reference table) for the values from before 1929 agree to the current article, but I am not sure if these sources are independent sources.


 * The official Tour archive does not give the point system results (1905–1912). This is where memoire du cyclisme does better. I checked the values there, they all agree to the ones currently in the article.
 * The number of stage wins of the winner in that Tour could be compiled from the sources above. But I don't know why this information should be included in this article, maybe the nominator can tell. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 08:13, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the detailed response, I would request that if other sources are used for verification of the data then those sites are added to the references section. --Jpeeling (talk • contribs) 16:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course. I just did it, is this format acceptable? --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:54, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine by me. --Jpeeling (talk • contribs) 16:50, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * "Armstrong also has the fastest Tour victory, completing the 2005 Tour de France with an average speed of 41.654 kilometres per hour (25.883 mph)." Source? I calculate, using data from the table, that the 1999 victory was faster.
 * The 1999 tour had an average speed of 40.315 km/h, which is slower. See also page 115 of the general reference. Are you sure your calculation is correct? --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:54, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The calculation is correct: 3870/91.58 = 42.26, 3593/86.25 = 41.66. However the data looks wrong, the source above has a distance of 3686.8 km. That distance is on the memoire site but the TDF archive like the PDF has 3870. Could you take a look at this please. --Jpeeling (talk • contribs) 16:50, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * By adding up the stage distances, I end up around 3690 km. I checked a newspaper announcing the 1999 Tour, and that also says 3690 km (a rounded number). I am sure the 3870 value is wrong, but I don't see how they made that mistake of 180 km. In their communications in 1999, the Tour de France gave the 3690 number, but somewhere between 1999 and now they changed this to 3870 and the error stuck.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)


 * "Spanish riders are third with 11 wins" according to the nationality table it's 12.
 * The source was written down before the 2009 Tour de France was over, so back then it was 11. I updated it to 12, but now it is unsourced does no longer completely agree to the source given.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:54, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * "The 1999 tour saw the return of Lance Armstrong to cycling after overcoming testicular cancer." Needs tweaking, Armstrong's return to cycling was in 1998.
 * You are right, but I think it is even too trivial for this article, so I removed it. Together with the fact that Armstrong retired after his seventh victory. For other cyclists, this career information is also not given.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The 'dated' Italian flag is used in the multiple winners table but Italian pre-1946 victories in the main table use a modern flag. Consistency one way or the other would be better.
 * Corrected it. The pre-1946 victories were supposed to have the old flag, but the coding was wrong.
 * Should Bartali's 1938 victory also have the old flag? Also I believe Spain had a slightly different flag when Bahamontes and Ocaña won. --Jpeeling (talk • contribs) 16:50, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You are correct. The information was in the article source, but coded wrong. I missed it. Thanks. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

--Jpeeling (talk • contribs) 16:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * AutoMoto for 1923 and 1924, Automoto for 1925 and 1926. Should these be consistent?
 * Yes, and I corrected it to Automoto, the way the general reference gives it. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:54, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Support, all comments resolved. --Jpeeling (talk • contribs) 16:57, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Support, I've fixed the footnotes link to the table, it's now working. Anyway it's a nice list, great job! — Martin tamb (talk) 10:28, 4 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment the list is missing media files. Why not add images of some of the winning cyclists to the side of the tables?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:40, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.