Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of University of Central Florida alumni/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Geraldk 19:47, 21 October 2009.

List of University of Central Florida alumni

 * Nominator(s): Scpmarlins (talk) 05:56, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because after considerable work I believe that it meets all featured list criteria. Work that needs to be done will be done quickly and fully to fulfill any concerns that arise. Scpmarlins (talk) 05:56, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Comment "This list of University of Central Florida alumni includes graduates" Featured lists don't start like this anymore; see recently promoted lists, such as List of alumni of Jesus College, Oxford: Law and government, for examples of more engaging lead sentences. Dabomb87 (talk) 12:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The lead has been rewritten. --Scpmarlins (talk) 16:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:10, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:10, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What makes the following sites reliable? done
 * http://www.fanbase.com/Paul-Miranda done
 * http://www.centralfloridafuture.com/military-research-building-started-1.1773456 done
 * http://www.infosportinc.com/ericvasquez.html done
 * Newspapers are italicized. You can fix this by changing "publisher" to "work" in the cite templates. done Dabomb87 (talk) 23:13, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above suggestions have been completed.--Scpmarlins (talk) 01:29, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * What makes http://aricalmirolaracing.com/ a reliable source? Dabomb87 (talk) 19:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC) done
 * The reference titled "Atari Bigbi Biography" (58) redirects to the home page of the Packers website. That link needs to be fixed to go to the specific page. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:38, 12 October 2009 (UTC) done


 * Can someone please provide further guidance as what needs to be done to the article. All previous suggestions have been completed with little feedback.--Scpmarlins (talk) 15:58, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay in getting back to you; I'll look at what's been done later on (after work). BencherliteTalk 16:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry from me to. I'll try to revisit tomorrow or the day after. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Support I think this is good enough now, after a lot of hard work from Scpmarlins. I admit that I was sceptical whether this list could be got up to speed in time, but I'm pleased to have been proved wrong. BencherliteTalk 15:55, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comments I'm still concerned at the number of entries that do not have a date of graduation. There are really no sources anywhere that say when a former NASA Flight Center Director graduated? A few additional comments:
 * One of the problems I encountered when trying to attain graduation dates was that many of those for which I could not find dates for either attended graduate school at UCF which makes it much harder to get or assume the year, or I could not find a date of birth which also makes it harder to approximate or search for the year as UCF does not offer a general Alumni directory. I was able to find class years for seven more alumni. --Scpmarlins (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have sources for those new dates? BencherliteTalk 19:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Overlooked information that was already in the original references were the sources. Also Alan Gooch was moved from the 'civic' section to the 'business' section, an overlooked misplacement. Also in the place of Kenny Clark, Travis Fisher, and Elton Petterson it is stated that they were drafted senior year, which means their class year corresponds to their year of draft. --Scpmarlins (talk) 20:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The presence of NASA scientists might suggest a renaming would be necessary for the first section. Maybe 'Civic, Education, and Science'? done
 * Agreed. --Scpmarlins (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You mention in the lead that military officers have graduated from UCF, yet there are no military officers in the list itself. Surely there have been some notable military officers that graduated from UCF?
 * UCF's ROTC program began in 1987 and has only blossomed this decade. There are over 230,000 officers in the U.S. Military and I don't believe that being just an officer makes them notable for inclusion. --Scpmarlins (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


 * As a research university that has made significant contributions in science, there must be notable scientists who have attended central florida. Your list has none, except the NASA people. A list of this sort is by nature incomplete, but there are some srious gaps here that concern me.
 * Addressed. --Scpmarlins (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * How? I don't see any more scientists on the list. BencherliteTalk 19:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I removed the blurb temporarily from the introduction until I can find more people that fit the parameter so that it is not misleading. Not to mention, with the same point as above, that just because the university has made "notable research contributions" does not mean that it has a wide array of notable alumni. Contributions, though significant in perspective and deed, are not always significant enough to become widely known nor is the scientist.--Scpmarlins (talk) 20:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Geraldk (talk) 16:13, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, for a university of its size, there are glaringly few non-athletic alumni. It looks to me like athletes make up about half of this list, which is a marked contrast with current FL alumni lists like List of Brigham Young University alumni and List of Georgia Institute of Technology alumni. Of course those schools are a little older, so their lists will naturally be longer, but the proportions seem off. Even alumni referenced in the main article on the University seem to be missing from the list. Where are the people who held leadership positions in the Department of Defense, the Army Corps of Engineers, Bright House Networks, and Raymond James Financial? I understand that the presence of research does not guarantee many notable graduates, but none at all? None of these guys are notable? What about the members of Sawyer Brown referenced in the famous alumni tab here? As I said, while alumni lists are by nature incomplete, I'm still concerned that the list needs more broad research to identify alumni in a couple of fields. Geraldk (talk) 22:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Those lists had already been considered when producing the original list. The members of Sawyer Brown, along with others in the corporate realm were included in previous revisions of the list (view history), but were removed because of red links. As for the science alumni, none of them meet the guidelines set out in WP:Notability, and would you like every Ph.D. student who did something science related to be included? "for a university of its size, there are glaringly few non-athletic alumni," more than two-thirds of the university's degrees have been awarded since 1995, and as recently as the turn of the millennium enrollment was less than 1/2 of the 52,000 it is today. For a 40 year old university (first classes held in 1968) that was not widely known for anything in particular until the 1990's the school has many notable alumni. --Scpmarlins (talk) 23:33, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If an alumnus is notable, he/she should not be excluded from this list just because there is not an article about him/her. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not only the fact that they have no article, one can be created, but some of them are just not notable. I have added about 10 names to the list, none of them are athletic in nature, all to corporate and sciences. As far as the list being disproportionately athletic that just isn't true. There are 49 athletic alumni listed, and 46 in all other categories. --Scpmarlins (talk) 00:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Respect for the speed with which you are trying to address concerns. I'm not going to oppose based on the discussion above, because after some digging I think you've gotten the majority of obviously notable alumni. But I hope the UCF wikiproject will continue to research and add non-athletic alumni to the list as much as possible. Geraldk (talk) 01:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Absolutely.--Scpmarlins (talk) 02:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. Share some concerns about length and sport/other ratio (49 athletic vs 46 all others is still disproportionate unless half of all graduates are in athletics). The tone of the lead reads like a prospectus. Is there anything negative to say, or even neutral :-)? The count of 167,000 alumni should really be an "As of 2009" rather than "Since founding" (which is redundant) because it will date quickly. However, there's an "as of" earlier in the lead so this might require some rearrangement/rewording. See WP:DATED for advice. The last lead paragraph is pure puff and doesn't really belong in an article about alumni--it should go IMO. The ucf.edu external link doesn't meet our WP:EL policy for this list and the Commons link isn't relevant to this list either. The Alumni external link needs fixed up to the new site (or a suitable page within). The three photos of buildings aren't relevant to this list and should be replaced by one good person photo. Colin°Talk 20:20, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It occurred to me overnight that a high ratio of athletes to non-athletes in this list is probably not surprising in a university if 2/3rds of the degrees have been awarded in the last 15 or so years. An athlete/sportsman can become "notable" relatively quickly through playing in professional sports, an area dominated by young people; his/her contemporary who goes into science, the arts, education, business etc will probably take longer to achieve the necessary prominence. BencherliteTalk 06:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak support I noticed the changes made following Colin's comments, which have improved it, although it's still a bit showy. Although this type of list isn't my cup of tea, it appears to tick all the boxes at WP:FL?. My only concern is wording such as "Current NFL cornerback". That can date easily and the list may not be maintained to reflect any changes, hence only my weak support. Nice work otherwise Matthewedwards : Chat  01:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Class year sorting (in Safari) results in four different results (when it should be just two).
 * How do I fix this? --Scpmarlins (talk) 21:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps use the sort template or give Dabomb87 a shout as he's a master of tabular sortability magic. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:09, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorting fixed. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:20, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Prose looks fine. I made a few minor tweaks to the lead. I wonder why the pics can't be lined up horizontally instead of vertically between the tables? This is a major point that might be generally applicable to FLs. It's great not to have to worry about squeezing pics in to the right of the tables, but I don't like the huge white gaps. Tony   (talk)  12:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Geraldk (talk) 20:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.