Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of monarchs of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 08:01, 17 January 2009.

List of monarchs of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia
Did this un a while back, never got around to nominating it. As always, comments welcome. Ironholds (talk) 21:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Support Comments  from
 * "by Armenian refugees fleeing" Noun + -ing sentence construction awkward here.
 * File:Rupoohye.GIF needs a source. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Suggestion for the sentence construction, then? The image might be a problem; 1) it was uploaded by a banned user, 2) it has been moved around and re-uploaded so many times I cannot see the original and third the source is given as 'Hayastan Page 6'. Now I'm assuming it is a book but given that 'Hayastan' is the Armenian word for, well, Armenia, it doesn't really narrow things down much. I'll Assume Bad Faith as it were and remove the image now. Ironholds (talk) 20:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: "The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia was a state formed in the Middle Ages by Armenian refugees, who were fleeing the Seljuk invasion of Armenia." Dabomb87 (talk) 20:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for the reviewing, by the way; I've done 6 featured list noms through this way and your comments have always been fantastically useful. Ironholds (talk) 20:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments Otherwise I enjoyed it. Good work. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 20:55, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you considered making the table sortable? It is a minor point but it may make the table even more useful.
 * Anything appropriate you could link to Seljuk invasion as I have no idea what this is and it´d no doubt enhance my enjoyment of the list if I did...!
 * Maybe it's the altitude kicking in but I don't follow the sentence which starts " Initially regional princes, close ties with the..." too well...
 * Probably being strict, but that last sentence of the lead needs a citation - I'm guessing it's from Mutafian or Boase? Perhaps a specific page ref would be better.
 * No status for Leo II is a little confusing.
 * I'm also a little confused by the monarch's whose dates overlap e.g. presumably Sempad coruled with Thoros III? Not sure...

Oppose, for the following reasons:
 * The short prose in the lead is awkward &mdash; see FL criteria 1
 * Only three references are cited in the text, none of which are in the English language &mdash; see WP:VUE. No references are provided for any of the entries
 * Hierarchy of references is not MoS compliant; section is inconsistently formatted &mdash; see FL criteria 5
 * It lacks "annotations that provide useful and appropriate information about entries" &mdash; see FL criteria 3 (and below)
 * It contains no sections (other than references) and, crucially, no table sort &mdash; see FL criteria 4

I'm not really sure why the monarchs of Cyprus (distant cousins of the last ruling monarch) are included; the Dukes of Savoy are not. Indeed there is no mention of why the title (in pretence) passed directly to Charles I in 1485; Cyprus itself had already passed to James II in 1464 and (although the titular claim to Jerusalem did pass to Louis after James III in 1474) was only disputed by the Duke from 1485 until after the reign of Catherine Cornaro in 1489. It is incorrect, therefore, to say that "the title fell out of use" in 1485, as it passed to the House of Savoy (as stated) and remained in official use as late as 1946. The table incidently, is also inconsistent with this statement, ending at 1467.

Featured lists should "exemplify Wikipedia's very best work" and satisfy all the criteria. Overall, I feel this table would be better placed in the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia article. Chrisieboy (talk) 23:23, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

PS. Choess just beat me adding "King" Leo II ;-) However, with whom was Isabella co-ruler until 1226 and Hethum I from 1252? How was Leo III "King, then co-ruler" from 1301 to 1307, while Hethum II was co-ruler from 1299 to 1307? What happened in 1341/2, 1373/4 and from 1393 to 1396? I think we should be told... Chrisieboy (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.