Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of top-division football clubs in CONMEBOL countries/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 19:05, 14 August 2010.

List of top-division football clubs in CONMEBOL countries

 * Nominator(s): Augustus Loren 1982 (talk) Digirami (talk) 15:17, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because it currently meets the FL standards. I worked all night fixing whatever was wrong. Augustus Loren 1982 (talk) 15:17, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment—the links to Carlos Valderrama, Mario Soto, and Neiva lead to dab pages, and the external links to http://apf.cerocinco.net/hist_apf.php and http://blogs.elmercurio.com/deportes/2008/02/28/las-patas-y-el-buche.asp are dead. Ucucha 15:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I fixed the dab pages (somehow, I missed those). The external links were replaced.


 * Comment Jamen have you asked the main contributers to the list about nominating? Perhaps Digi would like to co-nom and get a star. Sandman888 (talk) Latest FAC 15:27, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I could care less if he wants partial or full credit (although the former sounds more fair since the page wasn't going anywhere before I touched it). The important thing is that the page is up to standards now. But yeah...I have no problems co-nom this. Augustus Loren 1982 (talk) 15:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose

The inclusion of the phrase "Each CONMEBOL member has its own football league system, except Liechtenstein.[2]" says all I need to know about how professional the writing is (criteria 1), and how good a summary of the article the lead is (criteria 2). That was fixed. One bad thing doesn't warrant a strong opposition.

It also shows that the nominator expanded this list after seeing the way List of top-division football clubs in UEFA countries is going (and as such I'm insulted by the suggestion that this was never going to go anywhere). The list was not going anywhere. It has been 3 years since it existed; in one night, I transformed it into a legitimate FL. I am not blaming anyone for this (when have I ever did). There is only like 3 real South American editors in the entire english wikipedia site so I understand it can take a while.

In short, 3 editors are better than 2. Don't put words in my mouth, please.

In any case, he was aware that the bulk of this information could be reliably sourced in English, and has instead chosen to use foreign-language sources, in many cases backing up controversial statements. South America is not Europe where everything is pretty much Anglocentric; the bulk of information coming from CONMEBOL is either in Spanish or Portuguese. It should be easy to understand why.

If you do have some English sources, we would more than welcome it.

I tend to stay away from prose, but there is also unsourced POV in the Chile section. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the sources for equally questionable statements in other sections (for instance Paraguay) are either unreliable, don't back up the claim, or both. Fair enough; I took that part out. But I assure the directors that every piece of information on that list is verifiable.

The sheer volume of images are so bad as to prevent a reader from concentrating on the list, making the page truly atrocious at low resolutions (criteria 4). The images contain no alt text... The images are clearly on the right of the screen (more specifically, 1/3). So, yes, the reader can easily read the article...just stay on the left side.

Alt text are no longer a requirement for Featured content.

...and without even looking at the image description pages there is at least one blatant copyright violation Really bad speculation...show some prove...or is it guilty into proven innocent? I did not upload a single of those images; they have been labeled legit long ago.

I'd be surprised if there aren't more (criteria 5) On the subject of images, Pele and Maradona both describe Alfredo di Stephano as a better player than themselves, so I find it surprising that a free image of him was removed. I chose the images carefullly, of course. The list in question deals with South American leagues so I chose players, people, settings, etc. that were notable enough in the leagues they played at. I focused, first, with players from the same nationality as their league and that have achieved something important (various national leagues, Copa Sudamericana, Copa Libertadores). In some cases (like Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil) it was easy.

Others (like Venezuela, Peru, etc) were a bit harder so I was forced to dig around to find some good stuff.

In short, I chose people that were highly relevant to the leagues they represented. Alfredo di Stefano did win two national leagues with River Plate but he was never a key player of those successes. More imporantly, Argentina has had plenty of players that have done more in the league and represented, with success, their clubs in the Copa Libertadores, Supercopa Sudamerica or Copa Sudamericana.

The 12 people I presented are just a small sample.

The only possible explanation is that someone is unhappy that he later defected to the Spanish national side. Wild accusations doesn't lead to anything. Really, really bad speculation...especially when it isn't true (which it isn't). I could care less about di Stefano. I don't like him or hate him...I just don't care much about him.

Finally The nominator is indefinitely banned for both sockpuppetry and gross incivility. While not an FLC criteria in itself, this will be an issue when he (and anyone that mysteriously pops up in his place) are blocked. --WF I just signed up for wikipedia yesterday. I have no idea what you are talking about. It seems you are doing everything and anything possible to not have this list become a FL.Augustus Loren 1982 (talk) 17:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

C-- 16:53, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and he removed a relevant mention of the Falklands not being part of the association, without good reason (further POV, and potentially stability). --WFC-- 16:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Falklands are part of the British; highly irrelevant in a CONMEBOL section. It isn't even part of continental South America.

I have no idea what you or your buddy up there is talking about. Good for you. Augustus Loren 1982 (talk) 17:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC) I'll put it more succinctly. You are indefinitely banned for gross incivility and sockpuppetry. Go away. --WFC-- 17:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC) I have no idea what this lad is talking about. Can someone entertain me on this? This guy sure is highly uncivil to be calling others "uncivil", not to mention launching wild accusations of sock-puppetry (please lol), copyright violations (that's a good one), and having a distinct hate for Alfredo di Stefano (now that is hilarious!) Augustus Loren 1982 (talk) 17:48, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * TBH I think TRM has a strict policy of removing banned user's nominations, so it is a de facto criteria. Sandman888 (talk) Latest FAC 17:01, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I know. I just wanted to make absolutely clear that I think this list is no-where FLC regardless of whether Jamen tries to feign innocence. Heck, I'm not known for my patience, but I'm not taking forever on the UEFA list because I'm incompetent or lazy. I'm taking forever because doing it properly is tedious work. --WFC-- 17:06, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.