Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Michael Jackson videography/archive3


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 10 December 2018 (UTC).

Michael Jackson videography

 * Nominator(s): Chase |  talk 17:32, 15 July 2018 (UTC), Akhiljaxxn (Talk) 07:38, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I added a lot of work into the article way back when and have nominated it before, but after a while I added some things that were listed as reasons for not being promoted. Chase |  talk 17:32, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Akhiljaxxn

 * Few thoughts


 * One or two sentence about The Wiz.Captain EO and Moonwalker ?
 * The section:Television needs to be composed better. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 12:08, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Reply to : I am not sure what you mean by the first bullet. Are you saying I should add one or two sentences about those two in the lead or are you asking why I only have one or two sentences about then in the article? As for the section on television, I agree that it is quite small, but there is notch content from Michael Jackson on the matter. I would love more input as to what you mean better "compose" as it use to be a table and that was awful for one or two shows. Chase |  talk 14:33, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * yes you should add one or two sentence about those three films/short movies.amd yeah you are right on section television.except above i mentioned the article definitely meets all of the requirements; I don't see why this shouldn't be accepted.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 00:56, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Reply to : Done Chase |  talk 21:26, 18 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Support the nomination. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:57, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Allied45

 * Comment: nice work on the list, just wondering though why there are several directors that are red-linked when other have been left unlinked? Also in the filmography table there's no links for directors with multiple appearances, yet they are linked in other tables? — Allied45 (talk) 02:00, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey Allied45 how it looks now?. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:17, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems a lot more consistent now! – Allied45 (talk) 10:12, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Reply to and to : Thank you for fixing the names, Akhiljaxxn. I did notice that when I first looked at the page from a while back, but just forgot to change it. Anything else you want to comment on, Allied45? Chase |  talk 15:47, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

I had another look over, and although I'm no expert on the topic, here's some things I noticed:
 * "The video was filmed in four geographic regions (Americas, Europe and Africa)" – should this be three, or four within?
 * Americas including two regions ie, Nrth America And South America. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:24, 29 July 2018 (UTC)


 * "The video features a cameo appearance by the rap duo Kris Kross and Michael Jordan" – the wording sounds like Kris Kross and Jordan are the rap duo. Perhaps change to: "The video features cameo appearances by the rap duo Kris Kross and basketball player Michael Jordan."
 * ✅. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:20, 29 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Link to the albums mentioned in the "Description" column of the "Video albums" table
 * Reply to : The only reason that I did not do that because they are linked multiple times throughout the article, per MOS:REPEATLINK, but it does state links can repeating if it is necessary in tables, etc. So do you think this table needs it even though they can scroll up and see the same link? Chase |  talk 16:43, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. Chase |  talk 18:11, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

This is all I really noticed, the list looks good, Allied45 (talk) 05:08, 29 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Also link 9/11 – Allied45 (talk) 05:20, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:14, 29 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Support the nomination – Allied45 (talk) 08:04, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Comments from TompaDompa

 * The WP:LEAD is way too long; the recommendation is no more than four paragraphs, whereas this is twice that. From what I can gather, this is an over-correction from the previous FLC review. The longest lead of the WP:Featured lists for artist videographies (the one for Beyoncé) has a word count of 715; this has a word count of 1,027.
 * Hey how it looks now?. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Still too long, in my opinion. The WP:LEAD needs to find the right balance between the number of entries described in it and the level of detail each entry is described in. To my eye, the problem is more with the latter, and I think it can be fixed. If it turns out that I'm wrong and it is not feasible to get the WP:LEAD down to a reasonable length without leaving out either too many entries or too much information about each entry, one may have to consider tightening up the scope and/or using WP:Summary style. TompaDompa (talk) 23:06, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the word count of this article is almost same like beyonce now and I feel like the lead should be longer than Beyonce's. Beacuse MJ had a long career spanning more than four decade. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:26, 14 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The WP:LEAD needs copyediting to pass WP:FLCR 1. For example, the last paragraph has a typo ("an" should be "and") and a sentence beginning with a minuscule.
 * ✅. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Taking a quick look, I see a bunch of stray periods scattered throughout. I say focus on the length, though. The copyediting can wait until the bigger problem has been fixed. TompaDompa (talk) 23:06, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

At this time, the list does not meet the criteria for WP:Featured list status. If and when the above issues are resolved, I'll do a more thorough review. TompaDompa (talk) 00:03, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Replaced few links with new. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

has not edited Wikipedia for three weeks, if they do not respond here and/or this nomination is not adopted, I will archive it in a few days. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * are you willing to adopt this nomination? If not, I'll close it very shortly.  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The Rambling Man yes I am. And I think I've adressed all the suggestions above. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 00:11, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
 * your concerns have been responded to. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:40, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The last four issues remain unresolved. I haven't checked whether the ones relating to the WP:LEAD have been resolved. TompaDompa (talk) 07:44, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Solved all your issues and tell me how it looks now? Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * See my replies above. TompaDompa (talk) 23:06, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Reply to and to : I am also here to provide any edits as the original nominator. I want to thank  for keeping this alive as I have put a lot of work into this list over the years. Also, I feel like the lead should be longer than Beyonce's, although I think the lead that I first nominated the list with was fine as well. Chase |  talk
 * Thank you very much for your review; I believe I have addressed everything. Please let me know if that is not the case or if you have any further questions or comments. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:31, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Some more comments:
 * Jackson has been called the King of Music Videos. – by whom? Is this so common as to warrant being mentioned in the second sentence of the page?
 * Jackson has been called the King of Music Videos by many including Guinnes book of world records. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:48, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it should be attributed inline or removed outright. TompaDompa (talk) 08:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Referred to as the "King of Music Videos" in subsequent years. is a sentence fragment. TompaDompa (talk) 12:33, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 16:49, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I stand by my previous assessment that it should be attributed inline or removed outright. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The descriptions for the music videos are not consistent in style. For instance, some are in the past tense and some in the present tense.
 * .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:17, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * There is still a mix of past and present tense, as well as other inconsistencies in style. TompaDompa (talk) 12:33, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

TompaDompa (talk) 23:00, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

More comments about the WP:LEAD:


 * The use of quotation marks vs. italics is not entirely consistent. The videos for "Thriller" and "Ghosts" are in italics.
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Michael Jackson's "Thriller short film" should be Michael Jackson's "Thriller" short film, no? The other one has an unpaired quotation mark at the first mention and italics at the second. TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:47, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The issues with "Ghosts" remain. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

More comments to come. TompaDompa (talk) 13:14, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Comments about the list:
 * As noted above, the descriptions are very inconsistent in style. It looks like they have been copied from elsewhere. They should be harmonized.
 * Several of the descriptions mention the date the video was shot or released. Is this really relevant?
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The description for "Blame It on the Boogie" is a run-on sentence which starts with a sentence fragment.
 * .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 18:08, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The video, features the group's members dancing on a black background, relied heavily on electronic trail effects, created at Image West, Ltd. using then-cutting edge equipment: the Scanimate analog computer system and a Quantel DFS 3000 digital framestore. should be rewritten as multiple, shorter sentences. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)


 * shower scenes referencing Psycho – is it really the novel the music video references, and not the movie?
 * There are lots of movies based on this novel.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * As far as I know there are only two: Psycho (1960 film) (which had several sequels) and Psycho (1998 film). That sort of narrows it down to just the 1960 film for a 1984 music video. My point was that it's more likely that a music video references the movie than the book, both because they're both made in a visual medium and because the movie is more well-known. Also, this reference doesn't seem to be verified by either of the sources cited. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:03, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It's still unsourced, no? TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The video has many references to the 1961 film West Side Story, especially the "Cool" sequence. – this is fairly opaque unless the reader is familiar with both the music video and the film.
 * How it loks now?. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Examples would be nice, as long as they're possible to understand for someone who hasn't seen the film or the music video. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The video begins with a group of males trying to pick up women, but they do not get any luck. – I'd describe their attempts as being unsuccessful rather than saying that they do not get any luck (not a particularly encyclopedic phrasing). It is also unclear to me why this part of the video is described and the other parts are not.
 * See how it looks now. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It should say what else happens in the video, not just how it starts. I also noticed a typo: thiry-four. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The music video featured the Jackson family members, except for La Toya and Marlon, and also includes children of The Jacksons. – this does not make it immediately clear who or how many of the family members were featured. I would suggest phrasing it such that the reader is informed how many members from each generation the video features (which ones is optional, but there is definitely enough room for it). It should also include a link to the Jackson family.
 * How it looks now? Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * "Most" should not be capitalized. I also think that the number of family members should be given. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It was set in ancient Egypt and featured groundbreaking visual effects – don't call the visual effects "groundbreaking", describe what they are instead.
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * What the visual effects are should be specified. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The music video was inspired by the album's cover art from which the single was featured in and also uses computer graphics. – this is an anacoluthon.
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It's no longer an anacoluthon, but it is kind of a non sequitur. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Two music videos were made for the single. – should there not be two entries in the list then, since this is a videography?
 * ✅. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Both versions' descriptions should ideally start with "One of two music videos made for the single." TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Honestly, I think this would need a lot of copyediting to pass WP:FLCR 1; the writing is far from professional standards right now. TompaDompa (talk) 14:01, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * TompaDompa Can you please close the suggestions that I solved already? It will help me to identify the unsolved one very easily. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 13:52, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Lirim.Z
All the references should have the same date format, an accessdate, if given an author and the 'work' parameter should only be used for magazine and newspapers. For e.x. use 'publisher=MTV' not 'work=MTV'. I did a couple of refs already.-- Lirim  |  Talk  23:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Seee how it looks now..Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:21, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * There are still refs with different date formats.-- Lirim  |  Talk  19:53, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:25, 18 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support -- Lirim  |  Talk  21:13, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Giants2008

 * Just to update, I left a couple more notes above. In addition, I saw one more glaring prose issue in the last sentence of the Television section: as an encyclopedia, the use of Michael here is much too informal. I could understand it if we were using it to distinguish him from other members of his family, but that isn't the case there. Let's get that and the other issues fixed so that I can fully cap this review. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 22:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * . Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:41, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The point above about references 124 through 128 lacking access dates remains an issue, and I left another comment above that one as well about the newest source. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 22:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * One final response is above. Fix that issue and we can consider this source review a pass. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 00:15, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, the source review now looks like a pass. Please do focus on the copy-editing concerns raised above, since they mirror the issues I found in a brief glance. I'm not sure how much longer we can keep this FLC open given the continued prose problems this far in. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 22:08, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * if I may be so bold, I think it should probably be archived. The problems with the prose and non-encyclopaedic phrasings are very widespread and although progress in fixing these has been and continues to be made, it does not seem likely that it can be brought up to snuff for WP:Featured list status within a reasonable timeframe. In addition to this, the descriptions for the list entries lack basic consistency in their approach to describing the music videos (presumably an artefact of not originally having been written for this purpose). It seems to me that the list would need a significant overhaul in order to harmonize the descriptions and while this is definitely something that can be done, I think it would be better to nominate the list all over again once it has been taken care of than to keep this nomination open until the issues have been dealt with satisfactorily, considering the substantial amount of time I would expect it to require. TompaDompa (talk) 16:41, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Giants2008 ( Talk ) 22:13, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.