Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Numbers in the Year Zero alternate reality game

Numbers in the Year Zero alternate reality game

 * Previous FLC

Resubmitting FLC since last attempt did not garner any votes. Article has been dramatically improved/changed based on comments made in the previous FLC. As always, any and all comments are appreciated. Drewcifer 23:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Neutral On formatting and completeness alone, I'd pass it, but I'm still at best dubious this is encyclopedic. This (and, honestly, most other side articles to that game) look more like one big game walkthrough.Circeus 22:47, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * To a certain extent I can see your point, but the same would hold true for just about any list-article for a game. The important part, at least in my opinion, is that the article meets the FL criteria.  In this case, any guide/walk through aspects it might have are trumped by the fact that it "brings together a group of existing articles related by well-defined entry criteria" (FL criteria 1a1). Drewcifer 05:27, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but where do you see a group of existing article being brought together by that specific list? Unless the numbers have articles that I missed... Circeus 16:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Primarily the YZ ARG pages: Websites and phone numbers in the Year Zero alternate reality game, Characters and organizations in the Year Zero alternate reality game, Year Zero (alternate reality game), and of course Nine Inch Nails, Year Zero (album), etc. To be more specific, the majority of the Media column is where other articles are linked to )the "well-defined entry criteria").  And, just for pragmatic purposes, all of the websites/phone numbers/other media are just contained within a few list article, rather than having their own separate articles, which would be slight overkill. Drewcifer 03:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You're missing the point: it is Numbers in the Year Zero alternate reality game itself that completely fails to "brings together [etc etc]". Circeus 20:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe I am missing the point, or maybe I just wasn't completely clear. The numbers article brings together Websites and phone numbers in the Year Zero alternate reality game, Characters and organizations in the Year Zero alternate reality game, Year Zero (alternate reality game), and of course Nine Inch Nails, Year Zero (album), etc.  The criteria for inclusion and categorization into the list, in this case, is the number associated with the particular media. Drewcifer 08:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Two problems with this. Firstly, the intro is a bit short, and doesn't give enough background for someone unfamiliar with the topic. It doesn't, of course, have to repeat everything in the Year Zero (alternate reality game) article, but this one needs to give more context on why the numbers are important and how they fit with other aspects of the game. Secondly, and more importantly, this article is firmly in the realm of original research. Virtually all the references are to primary sources - the websites that form part of the game itself - rather than to reliable secondary sources discussing the numbers. That doesn't make this article any less true or accurate - but it does make it less encyclopedic. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 10:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments OpenToppedBus. I admit that the Original Research thing is conceivably a deal breaker.  However, to a certain extant, OR is unavoidable in many cases.  For instance, saying "the sky is blue" without a reference would be acceptable since you can just look up and confirm the fact.  Along the same lines, what if I said this: "The logo of Google alternates between blue, green, yellow, and red."  That doesn't need a reference because it is completely obvious, and is a simple fact of observation.  In my eyes, that example is exactly the same as saying "The number 24.14.1 is displayed on X wesbite," which is essentially what this article says, only in table format.  The references are there only to make things more transparent and easy to verify.
 * As for the lead, I completely agree with you, so I've expanded it just a little bit to put things into a bit more context (diff). Hopefully that is enough expansion for you, if not let me know. Drewcifer 13:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)