Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Poker Hall of Fame/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 15:25, 30 June 2009.

Poker Hall of Fame

 * Nominator(s): --- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 05:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Here is the latest of the Poker articles for FL consideration. --- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 05:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - References need to be formatted properly. Some are missing publishers. Dates should be consistent. Publications need to be italized— Chris!  c t 19:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed--- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ref 10 http://pokerworks.com/article-1081.html deadlinks. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed dabs and ref.--- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 20:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

(Copied comment from the poker project where I asked for a second set of eyes a week or so ago.)
 * The article looks pretty good to me. One thing, the line "Currently, the Poker Hall of Fame is virtual in nature." needs to be clarified/written in language that everyone can understand. It threw me when I read it, especially since it was tacked on to the end of a historical summary of casino ownership of the HOF. I tried to fix it but kept getting the fizzing Beavis and Butthead light bulb. Hazir (talk) 18:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Done--- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 13:56, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. I hope that the next FLC you submit is a better-prepared than this one. All the same, good job. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What makes the following sources reliable (apologies if I've brought these up before)?
 * http://www.professional-poker.com/columns/paul-mcguire/poker-hall-of-fame.htm
 * This is the one I have the most question about, I'll try to find another source for this.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Found better source.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:50, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What is the replacement source? Dabomb87 (talk) 16:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PokerNews.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 04:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC) NOTE: should you have questions about PokerNews.com, you should read this Bluff Magazine] article wherein PokerNews entered into an agreement with the WSOP to provide ‘play by play’ updates and chip counts for publication on the worldseriesofpoker.com website, as well as on PokerNews.com.  Bluff Magazine also writes, that PokerNews has garnered a reputations for providing what many in the industry consider the best poker tournament coverage on the web.  Part of agreement for the WSOP was that they translate in "near real time" the coverage into the 23 languages used by PokerNews.com.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 04:24, 23 June 2009 (UTC)  Poker news has a similar agreement with the Aussie Millions tournament.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 05:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.pokerroom.com/newsroom/news/592/
 * While I think this source is OK, I'll try to find a different one for this.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Updated with more reliable source.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:50, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What is the replacement source? Dabomb87 (talk) 16:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pokernews Also, this is common tale... one that could actually be argued to be common knowledge in the poker world.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 04:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/pokerpages06.htm I think I might have let this go before, but this makes me wary.
 * Most magazines/companies have guidelines on how to be published. I mean, you can write articles for  written articles for professional journals or Newspapers or whatnot.  Having a criteria for submitting articles does not disqualify a source.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * One other thing to note on the page, There is no set rate of payment for articles. Payment will be determined on a case-by-case basis. Payment will be issued via check only, without exception, at the end of the month in which an article was published. They are not asking for people to write for free ala a wiki, they are looking to publish reviewed content.  The articles have to pass the mustard.  Furthermore, the fact that they don't offer a set rate is a sign of a more credible magazine.  I know some pages will pay X dollars per article and those are generally a little more dubious in nature.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 03:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.ultimatebet.com/poker-news/2009/march/phil-hellmuth-new-official-web-portal
 * Ultimate bet is one of the biggest online casinos. I consider it a reliable, albeit not a top tier source.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Replaced with ESPN and PokerListings sources.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 03:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=230
 * The hendonmob is one of the most respected databases of poker results.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A quick search on "according to the hendon mob" will generate over 130K worth of hits. The Hendon Mob was involved in a legal case a few years ago concerning their data base.  It was with either Poker Listing or Poker Pages, but it is generally considered to be one of the more complete repositories of poker results available.  MSNBC relies upon them as does [AllIn Magazine and do just about all of the various poker cites (fulltilt, ultimate bet, pokernews, poker listing, pokerstars) and even the established blog writers (Daniel Negraneau, Barry Greenstein, Andy Bloch.)  There are only a handful of databases reporting results, and the HendonMob is one of them.  Poker Pages is another, but their data base isn't as complete---especially from older tournaments.  Cardplayer also has one, but from what it looks like HendonMob/Cardplayer feed each other.  For example, looking at the results for the 1991 SBOP, both websites have the same holes in their results.  Most notably, neither one has results for the Deuce to Seven Lowball event.  If you look at the 89 results, both are missing results for 4 of the first five events---but the Hedon Mob has the winner of one of those five, while Cardplayer does not.  Earlier events are better covered by the Hendon Mob (see the 1981 event.)---[[User:Balloonman| Balloonman ]] NO! I'm Spartacus! 18:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, should be fine. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.tightpoker.com/news/mike-sexton-deserves-place-in-pokers-hall-of-fame-1074/
 * This is from a subsidairy of Party Poker itself, and as it is referencing a campaign by PP, it is a primary source. But I added a second source.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.pokerlistings.com/player-interviews/the-press-conference-part-1-this-years-poker-hall-of-famers Dabomb87 (talk) 22:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Poker Listings is an established source. Zero doubt in my mind about it.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Poker Listing is one of the more respected online websites for poker information. Poker listing staff] are full time employees travelling and writing for Poker Listings. In addition, they have an array of high caliber "featured writers" whose reputations are beyond reproach. Nolan Dalla is notable enough that I have the intention of writing an article on him one of these days.  He's been the official press officer for the WSOP for years and can be seen working the floor at WSOP events.  (When Hal Lubarsky was eliminated last year, Nolla was the person who gave a short speech commemorating the achievement.)  Aurthur Reber is another big name for his published works.  As is Gary Wise (who does Poker Listing's Hand of the Day) and is ESPN's poker expert. I don't know if it means anything, but if you goto GoogleNews, it is not uncommon to see pokerlistings.com as the reporting website. NBC has cited PokerListings.com. Here is an independent (although I don't know how reliable) source calling Pokerlistings the world's largest online poker guide.  Another source gave a review, What sets Pokerlistings.com apart from the jungle of online sites promoting poker sites is the sheer amount of relevant and qualitative poker information they offer.  Pokerlistings routinely gets interviews with the games top stars---moreso than you would expect from a website that is not respected in the field.  In short, Pokerlistings is one of the premier online sources for poker information.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 03:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose – Sorry, but I see too many prose problems at the present time, in addition to the source questions raised earlier.
 * Remove comma after Nick the Greek.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Decapitalize Award in section header.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Space between initials for T.J. Cloutier.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Typo: "The award was was an 8-inch tall piece of glass...".
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "and had Binion's Horseshoe Casino logo in it." Add "the" before Binion's?
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Table: Picky, but non-breaking spaces are needed for dollar figures, such as this: $2 million (hit edit tab to see formatting).
 * Done, learned something new.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Commas before and after Super/System in Doyle Brunson's note.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Jack Strauss note: "A saying that means as long as you have a chip and a chair you have a chance." Sentence fragment with a lot of repetition from the previous sentence.
 * Reworded--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fred Ferris: Space after the dollar sign in $ 10,000 Deuce to Seven Draw. Check elsewhere for these.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "Reese was best known for his cash game." If it wasn't literally his game, try adding "play" at the end.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Amarillo Slim note: Spell out tv, and add a comma after Super Bowl of Poker.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Berry Johnston note: "He has cashed in at least one WSOP event since 1982." I would hope so, if he's a Hall of Famer. Is this supposed to say he did so each year.
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Henry Orenstein note: Comma after "hole cam".
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Crandall Addington note: Typo in "1973 $1,000 No Limi Hold'em".
 * Done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Phil Hellmuth note: Excess parentheses mark after Peter Eastgate.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 21:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * done--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - made some fixes, but it looks good — Chris!  c t 01:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Comments from --  SRE.K.A.L. 24 [c]
 * Why is there an image of the 2007 Main Event WSOP Bracelet on the article? --  SRE.K.A.L. &#124; L.A.K.ERS ]]  22:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The WSOP winnings aren't sorted properly. Also, why not use live winnings instead? --  SRE.K.A.L. &#124; L.A.K.ERS ]]  23:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed the 80,000 one that was appearing out of order. I can't figure out why the 0's are showing up at the end as compared to the beginning when sorting.  Any ideas?
 * As for why I'm using the WSOP totals there are two reasons. First, the Poker Hall of Fame is now directly tied to the WSOP.  Both were acquired in 2004 by Harrah's Casino.  Second, there is a little more authority in that total.  While there are other sources that present life time earnings, there can be significant discrepencies between the amounts.  According to various sources here is Doyle Brunson's lifetime tournament winnings:
 * The Hendon Mob = $5,819,350.
 * Cardplayer = $5,305,447.
 * Poker pages = $5,215,256.
 * Bluff Magazine = $5,065,582.
 * PokerListings = $5,049,331.
 * Each of those sources is a reliable source, but because they have different criteria on what counts towards the lifetime earnings and because earlier results are not as well recorded, there are discrepencies. By using the WSOP Lifetime earnings, we have an authoritative figure; and in this case the one that is now affiliated with the Hall of Fame.  If the Hall wasn't under the WSOP I would probably use one of the other sources for lifetime earnings, but as is I think the WSOP is the best option.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See this comment by Scorpion regarding the wayward sorting. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:57, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, sorting fixed. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:32, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't get why Dabomb87 commented on an FLC on my talk page, when he already knows I don't like it, but ehh...I'll support once everything has been resolved. --  SRE.K.A.L. &#124; L.A.K.ERS ]]  19:48, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I've got everything covered to this point.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 23:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.