Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/St. Louis Wrestling Hall of Fame/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 19:28, 23 May 2009.

St. Louis Wrestling Hall of Fame

 * Nominator(s): GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel that it meets all of the criteria. The prose gives relevant information about the hall, and all information in the table is sourced to reliable references. This list mirrors the format of other Featured Lists, such as NWA Hall of Fame. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, well I don't see any problems with the list as far as prose. Though there is one thing, and it is just me wondering if this is correct since english was never my finest subject in public school, but in this sentence: For example, Thesz' plaque states that he is "the finest example of a true world champion". You have...(thinking about how to word it)...possibly done an error but I can't be certain. Isn't it supposed to be wrote Thesz's? I only remember that the apostrophe should only be alone if the word ends in a "S". I may be wrong; hopefully you know or someone else does along those lines.
 * I know; it's sibilant consonants, including S, Z, or X, so the current usage is correct. KV5  ( Talk  •  Phils ) 11:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I would just place the small note in its own section. I don't believe it just being under the table is too clean (lack of a better term at this point in time) though that is just me.
 * A list explaining each section in the table would be helpfully IMO.
 * Ref 7 is dead.
 * I replaced the reference. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Take any of these into consideration, after you reply I'll make my final decision. I don't see anything being a problem. The sources look good to me.-- Will C  08:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Support-- Will C  01:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments –
 * "The Hall of Fame was created to honor the role St. Louis played in helping establish professional wrestling in North America." Should probably be "helping to establish".
 * "along with surprise inductee Larry Matysik." I don't like how his entire name is repeated in the lead. Took me a while to think of a good alternate: "along with Matysik, a surprise inductee." Also, this sentence has three variations of "inducted". To reduce repetition, how about changing one to "enshrined".
 * This one is purely optional, but you may want to consider moving full citations for books used multiple times to the general references. Then, the citations could be short-form, with just author and page number. Not something I'd ever withhold support over, though.
 * The St. Louis Post-Dispatch general reference is a dead link.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 21:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I made all of these changes (I think I did the reference formatting thing properly, although I'm not sure that the General References are in the proper order now...it seemed awkward to split up the books, but it might be necessary to keep it in alphabetical order...I'm just not sure which is considered more important). I replaced the dead link with the St. Louis Wrestling Hall of Fame's official MySpace page, which I hope is considered reliable. It's main purpose is as a source for the inductees and the years of their inductions, so the Hall of Fame itself seems like a good source. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure how reliable an official MySpace page will be considered, because an unofficial one would probably be considered unreliable. Is the same information included in the other official site? If so, I'm not sure a second link is needed at all.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 22:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, as is the case with many websites, the creators of the official site appear to have abandoned the page in favor of a MySpace page. It is, however, an official MySpace site operated by the creators of the Hall of Fame. It is used only as a source for the list of wrestlers inducted in 2008; it is not, however, used as a source for any information about their careers. I believe that the official MySpace page of a Hall of Fame should be considered reliable as a source for the list of inductees. After all, who knows the list of inductees better than the owners of the Hall of Fame? I have double-checked the list against lists posted by other websites (credited to Wrestling Observer Newsletter, which, as noted below, is a reliable source but unfortunately charges for the newsletter and does not provide free access to archived stories); the list (as seen here matches the list on the MySpace page). GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak support – Basically I echo Dabomb below. The core of the list is FL-worthy, but the MySpace reference is a cause for concern. Any chance for a reliable non-MySpace source? An archived story that isn't free to access, or a print source, would be just fine for use in a featured piece of content.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 01:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Weak support, issues resolved, but I'm still a bit wary about the MySpace source. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Sources
 * What makes http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/6935/124/ reliable?
 * Seems to meet WP:SPS. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm also wary about the MySpace page.
 * New York Times-->The New York Times Dabomb87 (talk) 23:59, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have addressed everything in your "Comments" section as well as The New York Times concern. Please see above for my comments on the MySpace page. As for Figure Four Wrestling, the Figure Four Wrestling/Wrestling Observer Newsletter site is run by Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez, both of whom are acknowledged as experts in their field. Alvarez is co-author of The Death of WCW, published by ECW Press, and has been quoted in several other wrestling books (including Hardcore History: The Extremely Unauthorized Story of the ECW, published by Sports Publishing LLC, and The Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame: The Heels, published by ECW Press). Meltzer has also written books (Tributes: Remembering Some of the World's Greatest Wrestlers, published by Winding Stair Press, and Tributes II: Remembering More of the Worlds Greatest Wrestlers, published by Sports Publishing LLC, Top 100 Pro Wrestlers of All Time, published by Stewart House). He is quoted in many books and documentaries (Hitman Hart: Wrestling with Shadows and Beyond the Mat, as well as Mysteries of Wrestling, published by ECW Press; Ric Flair's autobiography, To Be the Man; Mick Foley's autobiography; and countless others). Alvarez has been running Figure Four since 1995, and in 2008, he merged the magazine with Meltzer's Wrestling Observer, which has been around since 1987. If you need any more information to verify their reliability, just ask (or do a search for their names, which should turn up many hits). I hope this helps. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Figure Four should be OK, but I will leave MySpace unstruck for other reviewers to evaluate. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.