Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Vikram filmography/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by SchroCat 07:50, 26 March 2015.

Vikram filmography

 * Nominator(s): Sriram speak up  12:01, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

With a diverse body of work, Vikram is one of the most decorated actors in contemporary Tamil cinema. The list has been compiled following extensive research and has been adequately well-sourced. Suggestions for improvement are most welcome. Sriram speak up  12:01, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Kailash29792

 * Lead
 * Is the prefix "Chiyaan" needed here? I think it is best suited in Vikram's main article, not here.
 * That part was modeled after a similar note made in the lead sentence of SRK's filmography, a clarification which is comparatively minor in SRK's. Would it be better if I rephrase it to often credited as Chiyaan Vikram? He has been credited so since Sethu... and not everyone know its genesis and significance.
 * If that is the case, then it may be retained.


 * I don't think you have to mention him as "model-turned-film actor" as the next para mentions his brief stint of modelling; and film actor is a redirect, so just say "actor".
 * Will remove the 'model' part. But, isn't there other kind of actors too? Will it be okay to put it in the general category?
 * Yes, if he achieved anything big through modelling.


 * "switched base" - how about he shifted his focus there?
 * Done.


 * "essaying the lead roles" - I'd prefer "portraying".
 * Done.


 * "Labelled by a critic" - who? And in Pithamagan, he says in the end "sakthi kodu", which I think was his only line in the film.
 * How about rewriting it as hardly any dialogues?
 * Just try writing that his character had mostly no spoken dialogue.


 * "moonlights as a Robin Hood in the guise of an anthropomorphic rooster" - I think vigilante is a better word than Robin Hood.
 * Wasn't he was more of a Robin Hood than a vigilante? He never questioned anything other than economic offenses, did he? Most refernces too refer his character to be ala Robin Hood.
 * By vigilante, I mean someone like Batman or Spider-Man. Ain't he similar to them?


 * "Rajapattai (2011), a box-office dud" - you mean failure?
 * Yes. Does that sound non-encyclopaedic? Should I rephrase it?
 * Never mind, I rephrased it.


 * "larger-than-life" sounds idiomatic and seems to convey POV. Search Wiktionary for any formal synonym.


 * Explanatory notes
 * "In the anthology film, Vikram's part was made in Hindi and dubbed into Tamil." - source?
 * Claim has been sourced.


 * More to come later... Kailash29792 (talk) 12:30, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Some new comments based on your new edits:
 * "kick the habit" - isn't he trying to overcome his addiction to smoking? Write this way.
 * Rewrote.


 * "in the debutant Bala-directed tragedy Sethu... (1999), whose making was deeply troubled" - rewrite as "Bala's directorial debut, the tragedy film Sethu... (1999)"; and I don't think you need that last sentence about the making.
 * Fixed.


 * Mention something about I and the Tamil David in the lead.
 * Done.


 * Avoid overlinking in the tables.
 * Removed overlinking.


 * Support: Thank you for addressing my comments. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:17, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Ssven2
First of all, the list looks nice at first glance. Good work! — Ssven2  speak 2 me 12:32, 10 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * Only "State Film" awards is mentioned. Please rephrase it as "Tamil Nadu State Film" awards for better clarity.
 * Done.


 * "moonlights as a Robin Hood" — What do you mean by "moonlights"?
 * Check this.
 * That's all right. But, can you replace it with a better word for more clarity?


 * Raavan wasn't universally panned. You can write it as : received negative reviews.
 * Done.


 * "heavy criticism" — simply "criticism" should suffice.
 * Done.


 * Can you find any source for the year the TV serial "Vishwanath" was aired?
 * Nope. However, this source mentions it as Killer Vishwanath.


 * Other sections
 * In the "As a dubbing artiste" portion, the films Paasamalargal, Kuruthipunal and Karuppu Roja are unsourced. Please find reliable sources.
 * Could not find reliable sources. Have hidden them from the list.

— Ssven2  speak 2 me 03:29, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Support

Note: As I stated in my edit summary here, the process of tweaking the prose was getting a bit tedious for me. I really want to see this pass, so I decided to copy-edit it myself. I have removed a chunk of redundant information, corrected the grammatical errors, and ensured that the lead flows better. Given these contributions, I believe I am exempt from either supporting or opposing the nomination. My only outstanding comment, at this moment, remains the inclusion of a partial list of his endorsements (as stated above). Also, a thorough source review needs to be done. -- KRIMUK  90  ✉  09:11, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Editor 2050
It would be great to have this established as a Featured List, but other than looking pretty, it lacks the fundamental goal of being complete.
 * Unknown roles can be filled up, with little research.
 * Not all films are available in YouTube. However, I'll try to find his character name from what's available.


 * Some dubbed films are included, while others like Vicky, Maari, Aarusaamy, Miss Madras et al are excluded. I know this is due to a lack of sources, but still the films are up online and would easily help complete the article.
 * They could be dubbed for television screenings, in which case, it cannot be included. Only those films that were dubbed and had a theatrical release can be named, which needs to be verifiable. I could not include them due to lack of reliable sources supporting the claim.


 * Bheema just says 'Released in Telugu' - lacks continuance with the rest of the article.
 * Written as in other instances.


 * Siragugal was made as a film, not a television soap. It should be featured in the filmography instead.
 * As per WP:FILMOGRAPHY, "TV films" belong in the Television table.


 * The films he provided voiceover for, should surely be included. He is credited in those films
 * They have been included later in a separate list.
 * Editor 2050 (talk) 12:32, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Vensatry

 * Image needs alt text
 * Provided alt text


 * (often credited Chiyaan Vikram[1][2]) - Place the refs. after ')'
 * Done.


 * Isn't "Breakthrough role" over-linked?
 * It has been wikilinked only once. Do you mean it doesn't need to be linked at all?
 * Exactly. Isn't the term 'Breakthrough' plain English? &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * But, I have wikilinked "breakthrough role" and not "breakthrough". If it is a normal word, why does it have a separate article in wikipedia explaining the terminology instead of an entry in wiktionary?


 * A mention of films like Thanthu Vitten Ennai, Meera, etc., could be made in the lead. He played the main lead in those films while working under biggies like Sridhar, SPM and PC.
 * I had mentioned them in an earlier draft, but the lead was too long. Therefore, I have mentioned or discussed only those films that were a subject of discussion themselves in the media, and those that earned him recognition.


 * Likewise a mention of his Telugu and Malayalam films could be there. You start with En Kadhal Kanmani and then jump into Sethu, which came almost ten years later.
 * Prashant says the lead is too long and needs trimming. You say that a few more of films can be mentioned. With all due respect, what am I supposed to do?


 * You can include a bit about Vikram declining the lead role in Mani Ratnam's Bombay. I leave this to you.
 * I'm against it. Per Baradwaj Rangan's profile in Caravan, he was also considered for a role in Raman Abdullah. More recently, he was even offered to play God in Gopala Gopala. Could not mentioned them all. They are more suitable in his biography.


 * His performance in Ullasam was well received isn't it?
 * The film wasn't really well received. Vikram only said that his role earned him female fans.


 * You could go a bit deeper into explaining the kind of characters that he played in Sethu and Pithamagan. After all, it's the characters that fetched him acclaim.
 * Any more detail, the lead would be too long and boring.
 * Now I see that the characters have been explained for both the films. Don't know how I missed it. &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * "the film grossed over INR100 million" - USD conversion is needed.
 * Added
 * Need to adjust this for inflation. &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Added year to template.


 * "In late 2001, Vikram was awarded his first Filmfare Award ..." would mean that the award ceremony was held in late 2001.
 * Fixed.


 * Arul and Majaa were highly anticipated?
 * Removed the term.


 * Link all entries in the table as it's sortable.
 * Why don't you have the Tamil and Hindi versions of David in two separate rows?
 * 1. The film was a bilingual and was released simultaneously. 2. Vikram only featured in the Hindi version. It was dubbed into Tamil, without his knowledge.
 * If it was only a dubbed version, how come this will count as an appearance? &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That is why, unlike Raavanan and Raavan, I have listed the two versions of David within a single row entry.


 * Thommidi Nelalu should be 9 Nelalu
 * Done.


 * Filmfare Best Actor Award -> Filmfare Award for Best Actor – Tamil
 * Reworded, but without the lang.
 * The emphasis should be on the language. Now, it looks like the one for Bollywood films and hence will mislead the readers. &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Doesn't "Filmfare Award' mean an award given by the Filmfare (the magazine)? Is there a necessity to distinguish between the Filmfare Awards and Filmfare Awards South? I'm not sure.
 * Of course, then why do we have different articles for all languages? Wouldn't that mislead the readers? &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 05:01, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Raavanan actually fetched him his fifth Filmfare Award
 * Corrected error.


 * The playback singer table needs a language column
 * Then I might have to list the Telugu songs as well. It would make the table too complicated.
 * Of course, they must be included as he did the playback and was credited in the soundtrack. &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Done.


 * Is the dubbing artiste table complete? I'm sure there are more number of films than the ones mentioned here. He was Ajith's voice in Paasamalargal and another actor's (don't know his name) in Karuppu Roja.
 * They have been removed due to lack of reliable sources supporting the same.
 * Sorry, but that's not convincing. This being the case, the list doesn't meet criterion 3(a). &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Then what about WP:VNT?
 * Sriram, that's an essay and cannot be co-related with WP:FL?. That being the case, I can say your argument borders on WP:GAMING. &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 05:01, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Very well then, what do you suggest I do? The claim might be true, but without RS how do you expect me to substantiate it? Will it be okay if I use "cite dvd" and mention the timestamp where his name has been credited in the titles? -- Sriram speak up  14:30, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * When you say he dubbed for J. D. Chakravarthy in Satya, the language (Tamil version) should be noted.
 * Added note.


 * Above all, how come there is no mention about I in the lead.
 * Will add them. It wasn't released when I nominated for FLC. And, other existing FLs did not mention unreleased films in the lead.
 * Added info on I.

&mdash; Vensatry (ping) 18:48, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Prashant!

 * After watching I, I have become a fan of Vikram. Thank you for working so well on his filmography. I think the lead is quite large. I would suggest to trim a bit.— Prashant 21:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * He has acted in about 50 films but I have discussed only 20 of them in the lead, on the basis of which got him critical acclaim/scathing criticism/notable awards. While another reviewer is asking me to mention/discuss a few more of his earlier films, you are asking me to trim the plot lead. What am I to do when I receive contrasting comments? Which way do I go!
 * I beg your pardon, is it the lead that you mean? Kailash29792 (talk) 18:31, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think length should be problem. WP:LEAD states that the lede should adequately summarize the whole article. Further, criterion 2 of WP:FL? states that the lede should be "engaging". I don't see a limit for the prose size in lede anywhere. You can make the lede "engaging" even if it's too long. For an actor who has made 50+ appearances with a diverse body of work it's just normal. What if somebody wants to take the filmography pages of actors like Rajini, Kamal or Mammooty? &mdash; Vensatry (ping) 08:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I was talking about cutting the unwanted texts for a more crisper prose.— Prashant  14:52, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Skr15081997

 * Is IndiaGlitz a reliable source?
 * Pls. check this out.


 * Why isn't accessdate included in all of the cite templates?
 * Well, I had actually intended to archive all the links in which case accessdate would have been redundant. However, there were some issues with archiving links from The Hindu. So now, some links have been archived while the other have accessdates. Still, if you think it is necessary, then lemme know and I will add accessdates to all links.
 * Add accessdates to every web/news citation.


 * In the "dubbing roles" section efn is not really needed just mention the info directly in the notes section.
 * Done.


 * Are you sure that all of his commercials are included?
 * No. Before his film career, he featured in a few adverts. But, only their names are known and nothing else like the directors/year/role. Also, another editor pointed out that only notable commercials should be included and that they themselves should be a subject of discussion in reliable sources. So, I have only listed such commercials.


 * Composers & singers in the "playback singer" should sort by their last names.
 * Have used sortname where applicable.


 * Same for directors & roles in "actor" section.
 * Again, have used sortname where applicable.
 * Could you pls. take a look at this before commenting on this issue? Sorry for the trouble. -- Sriram speak up  13:47, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

--Skr15081997 (talk) 15:22, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Link directors at every occurrence in the lists.--Skr15081997 (talk) 13:03, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Support My concerns have been addressed. Good work on this list.--Skr15081997 (talk) 11:17, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Bollyjeff

 * The lead seems a bit too long and detailed per this discussion
 * That discussion has less than half a dozen editors expressing their views. There seem to be no consensus and, even if there was one, it can't be used as a rule of thumb unless it has been implemented as added to a policy. My intent is to take this list to FL at any cost, even if I were to have only one or two sentences for the lead. But, if the different reviewers are of contrasting opinions, I wonder which way to sway.
 * Given Vikram's career, I think the length is absolutely fine. -- KRIMUK  90  ✉  01:42, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The sidebar should probably not be there per this decision
 * Removed per consensus.


 * Three of the ten listings under playback singer appear to be complete duplicates except for film title. I guess they are dubbings? Can these be combined on one line each?  It looks weird as is.
 * He did sing the song in both languages. I couldn't get what you mean? Can you clarify a little? -- Sriram speak up  15:33, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I mean that it looks odd to have two rows, one for Rajapattai and one for Veedinthe, with the same year, same songs, same composer, and same co-singers. Only the language and sources are different.  Could you combine these two rows, to remove this duplication?  Same for the other two duplicates in this table.  BollyJeff  &#124;  talk  02:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Have combined them into a single row entry. However, could you take a look at this? I had originally split them into separate rows for the two languages as per comments from another reviewer. So, again, I have been receiving contrasting opinions about it!! -- Sriram speak up  14:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I am not very comfortable with the 'unknowns'. Has all possible  research been exhausted?  To me, even a video source with a credits roll would be good, but I don't know how others would feel about that.
 * Will look into it and find as much info as possible.


 * I also believe that access dates should be added to all citations that include links.
 * Will add them, probably by tomorrow.


 * It's not clear what is meant by "Lent his voice for the Tamil-dubbed version". The Gandhi article makes no mention of a Tamil version, nor does the source that I can see.  If it's on a page other than one, please note the page number.
 * Actually, the article has an option to be seen in single page. -- Sriram speak up  14:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Rediff and The Hindu are linked in the citations, but not at their first occurrence. Try to get all firsts.
 * Fixed. Wikilinked first instances.


 * The Rotten Tomatoes and Bollywood Hungama external links are not adding anything useful to the article.
 * Sites like IMDB and Rottentomatoes are similar to wikipedia in that they are crowd-sourced. They could evolve anytime with more info.


 * In the actor section, many of the notes say: Dubbed into XX as YY. How is this relevant to Vikram?  If it was dubbed with his voice, it would be noted in the dubbing section, no?
 * The films were dubbed into other languages and had a theatrical release. While the original versions always had his voice, the dubbed verions didn't always. He only dubbed for some of them, Still, they can't be listed in the dubbing section as he voiced for himself, as an actor and not as a dubbing artiste.
 * I think that only the ones where he dubbed for his voice should be listed then, not ones where he was not involved in the dubbed release, and a note should be made to clarify that.
 * The table heading reads "As an actor"! Whether he was involved in its release or not, he did feature in the dubbed versions too. I don't know what this fuss is all about. I had earlier wrote "Released in XX as YY" for clarity; but,it was Krimuk90 who asked me to reword so.
 * Sorry, you are correct. He "acted" in both versions, so it's okay. BollyJeff  &#124;  talk  17:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I was told in another FAC that "debutant filmmaker" is not appropriate encyclopedic use of the word debutant.
 * "Vikram's sole box-office success during this period was ... disorder; a commercial success across South India." I think the part after the ; is redundant here.


 * - SchroCat (talk) 07:52, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.