Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Winston Churchill as writer/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 00:34, 13 June 2016 (UTC).

Winston Churchill as writer

 * Nominator(s): SchroCat (talk) 21:03, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Winston Churchill's career as a writer may not be the first thing people remember about him, but it was a significant part of his life. It ran from his early years as a soldier to well past his political retirement and paid for his nice pad at Chartwell and his expensive tastes in brandy and cigars. This list has been expanded and brought into line with good standards, and the text now adequately supports and explains the background to those lists. Any and all comments are very welcome. – SchroCat (talk) 21:03, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Comments from jfhutson
 * Lead
 * ”Winston Churchill, in addition to his careers of soldier and politician, was a prolific writer, under the pen name "Winston S. Churchill".” This sentence could be broken up / made easier to read.
 * It's the final comma that caused problems with reading. It should actually read much easier without it, given there is only one sub-clause to deal with now. - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The transition after the first sentence could be better. We're talking about his writing so maybe start by saying he did war journalism and then relate it to bio.
 * We sort of do that already, give or take a few words of introduction to the army first. - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * ”Although Churchill wrote a novel and a short story in his career, his main output was studies of major historical events or figures.” Starting with “Although” sound off. I would start with talking about his “main output”.
 * Switched - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Writing career
 * “reported on Siege of Malakand” definite article
 * Yep, added - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * ”although Arthur Balfour described the work as "Winston's brilliant autobiography, disguised as world history".” I can't tell what this means, and I need to know who Balfour is.
 * description to Balfour added. I've added that Balfour "dismissed" the work as quoted, but I think it is probably clearer now. - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm seeing a lot of “although”s
 * Trimmed a couple out - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Winston Churchill, the American novelist
 * Section heading sounds like it's about the Prime Minister being an American novelist, but I'm not sure what the alternative is.
 * I've gone with "American novelist of the same name": does that sound better?


 * Non-fiction
 * Add a see also to Winston Churchill as historian
 * Yep - added - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Collected speeches
 * ”There are around 135 published booklets of Churchill's speeches...” Clarify that this is in addition to the books below and maybe put it below the table. It seems like the booklets might be included in “speeches in a collected form“, so clarify inclusion criteria or that the booklets are single speeches.
 * I'd rather keep it above the table if possible (although I am biddable if there is a good reason for it. I've clarified the rest per your suggestion. - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Should the booklets be italicized if they are individual speeches? --JFH (talk) 02:49, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yep - quite right: MOS:QUOTETITLE is the relevant guideline - now changed. - SchroCat (talk)

Overall looks like a good list with the caveat that I know nothing about the subject.--JFH (talk) 22:00, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Many thanks JFH - your thoughts are much appreciated indeed. If you wish to discuss any of the points I haven't undertaken, please let me know - I'm not firmly set on any of them, so happy to hear any alternatives you have in mind. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, looks good. I added one question above but I'll support regardless, noting that this is my first time participating at FLC. --JFH (talk) 02:49, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Many thanks JFH - you are right on the italicisation of the individual speeches, and I've swapped out with quote marks. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 08:22, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Support - with comments:


 * -- The linked article gives the title The Daily Graphic?
 * → "Churchill wrote a novel and a short story in his career, although his main output 'were acollection of his studies into major historical events or figures."? Slight poetic licence in terms of "collection", if indeed that's what it was.
 * → "To earn the required funds" sounds better, IMO.
 * -- "In the 1923 general election Churchill lost his parliamentary seat and moved to the south of France where he wrote The World Crisis, a six-volume history of the First World War, published between 1923 and 1931" sounds better to me.

Please disregard or adopt at your leisure. Another great list!  Cassianto Talk   02:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Many thanks Cass: I've either adopted in full, or re-worked in a slightly different way. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 08:27, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Support: My knowledge of Churchill is limited to the little I remember from high school and that (mis?)portrayal of his in The King's Speech. Despite my ignorance, I find this list to be quite illuminating with the added distinction of being skillfully arranged. Just one point from me. The lead mentions that he won the Nobel for his numerous published works, especially his six-volume work The Second World War. I don't see the second part of that statement either mentioned or cited in the main body. Are we saying that because these compilations were his most popular? Krimuk | 90 ( talk ) 11:49, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Krimuk. I thought I covered the Nobel part with a relevant source, but it appears not; I've trimmed it so the text is now covered by the source. Cheers. – SchroCat (talk) 15:00, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Comments from Gonzo_fan2007
 * Link #23 is not available to those who don't have a subscription. Is there any other source you can use, or find some sort of archived version that is accessible to all?
 * I'm afraid not. It's acceptable to have subscription only as a reference, even though it may (unfortunately) be problematic to some. - SchroCat (talk) 14:21, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * No problem. « Gonzo fan2007   (talk)  @  14:38, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I am not a big fan of the ref's in the headers of the tables. I may be wrong, but it seems like normal convention is to either add a References columns or put the references in the body of the table. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, as I haven't reviewed FLs in a long time.
 * This is normal practice if not used in a separate column or in-table. If we had separate refs for each published book, I'd have used a separate column, but simply repeating the same 3 or 4 sources on each and every line isn't advantageous. Some of my more recent FLs use this format, including Len Deighton bibliography, Roald Dahl bibliography, Roald Dahl bibliography and List of works by W. E. Johns (and a couple of these use both forms, where applicable). - SchroCat (talk) 14:21, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. « Gonzo fan2007   (talk)  @  14:38, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * "To earn required funds, he gained his colonel's agreement" add "the" after "To earn".
 * Added - SchroCat (talk) 14:21, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * "...answers to key parliamentary questions; beginning with..." I would make the semi-colon a period and start a new sentence with "Beginning..."
 * Done. It leaves two slightly short and stubby sentences, but I suppose I can live with that. – SchroCat (talk) 14:21, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Really well done, especially the prose. I would be glad to support after my comments have been responded to. Thanks, « Gonzo fan2007   (talk)  @  04:21, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Many thanks . Much appreciated. - SchroCat (talk) 14:21, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Support Nice job! « Gonzo fan2007   (talk)  @  14:38, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Source review – The source links are all working and the references are reliable throughout. There wasn't too much that I could spot-check as most of the references are to print sources, but I looked at numbers 1 and 28 and those turned up fine. There were a few small formatting issues that I found, though:
 * Reference 3 could use an access date.
 * Refs 7 and 14 should have the page range appear as pp., not p.
 * While doing one of the spot-checks, I noticed that there's no space after ref 19. That should probably be fixed before this gets promoted.
 * Also, the second note currently does not have a source. You might as well plug ref 3 in there. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 21:13, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Cheers, all should now be sorted. Much obliged. – SchroCat (talk) 08:14, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Support – An interesting list with a few minor quibbles:
 * Alt text needed for images. Mention the year (perhaps an approximate one would suffice) for Randolph Churchill's photograph.
 * Ive added where the caption isn't helpful enough


 * 'southern Africa' or 'South Africa'?
 * Both, depending on whether we're talking about the country or the region. – SchroCat (talk) 13:25, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The lead says, he continued his war journalism in southern Africa during the Second Boer War, but the body refers to the country. Perhaps, linking the regions (also Sudan) might be helpful for non-specialists. &mdash; Vensatry (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2016 (UTC)


 * A brief overview about his parents would be very helpful.
 * Im not sure it would: they had nothing to do with the writing side of his career. I think the parents are best kept to the main article, or their own. – SchroCat (talk) 13:25, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * True, but the bit about his mother (using her influence to secure a contract for him) seems a bit out of context. &mdash; Vensatry (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is linked twice in the 'Writing career' section.


 * Now deleted

&mdash; Vensatry (talk) 11:55, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Vensatry: much appreciated! Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 13:25, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Giants2008 ( Talk ) 21:12, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.