Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Woody Allen filmography/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted 02:53, 5 March 2008.

Woody Allen filmography
Fresh of the heels of the Christopher Walken filmography being promoted, I've nominated two more: Woody Allen filmography and Vittorio Storaro filmography (see above). This format of this list is a little unconventional, since Allen typically does more than just one thing per movie. As always, any comments and suggestions are appreciated. Drewcifer (talk) 04:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Support - a couple of minor things we'll agree to differ on but only stylistic so nothing to stop me supporting. Good work. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for your help and your support. Drewcifer (talk) 09:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Conditional support - The "Award" columns in the "Awards and nominations" section should be removed for the Oscars, Globes, DGAs and BAFTA awards. It doesn't look very good to have an entire column when it's all the same. Perhaps it could be mentioned at the top of the table, ie. "Academy Awards (AKA Oscars)" or something along those lines. -- Scorpion0422 01:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd rather keep the tables as consistent as possible, within the same section but also across all filmographies. I think it would look sloppy if some tables looked different from the others, all in the same section, one after the other. Drewcifer (talk) 02:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Because of some more suggestions along the same lines, I've redid the section a bit. Let me know if you like the changes. Drewcifer (talk) 01:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment I think the one-sentence paragraph in the lead should be merged with the first paragraph. I don't like the repetitive "throughout his career" part, either. -- Crzycheetah 23:37, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Merged the sentence to the paragraph before it. Though I'm not sure if I see anything wrong with "Throughout his career." Drewcifer (talk) 20:09, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I don't see any changes. Saying "Throughout his career" once is enough, I don't like when more than one sentence begins with the same phrase. -- Crzycheetah 20:56, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Woops, didn't hit save. And I understand what you mean.  fixed both. Drewcifer (talk) 21:17, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's better.-- Crzycheetah 22:51, 23 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose While this is overall an informative list, I have some concerns that can be addressed.
 * The lead does not appear to properly summarize the article per WP:LEAD - it repeats some information (3 Academy Awards) and omits other tables (DGA, Saturn, Berlin International Film Festival, American Comedy, as well as highest grossing films). I think if it is important enough for its own separate table, it should at least be mentioned in the lead.
 * I'm not sure if I see a point in rehashing all the awards he's won in the Lead. I figured it would be good to be mention the most notable (Oscars, BAFTA, Golden Globes), but not to give an exhaustive list.  Also I split up the awards into seperate tables simply because making one massive table didn't look right.  So I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that every table in the whole article should somehow be mentioned in the lead. Drewcifer (talk) 03:16, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for the explanation of the separate tables. WP:LEAD says The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article. If you do not think these other awards are as important, I guess they do not have to be mentioned explicitly in the lead. How about changing the current sentence by adding a generic mention of other awards, i.e. Throughout his career, Allen has won numerous awards, including three Oscars, eight BAFTA awards, and one Golden Globe Award[, and many others].? Similarly, could there be some mention of the fact that this article lists his top ten grossing films be added to the sentence on box office grosses?


 * I am also concerned about relative emphasis in the Lead. Quoting WP:LEAD again: ...in a well-constructed article, the relative emphasis given to information in the lead will be reflected in the rest of the text. So his theater work is one table with four rows of information, but gets a long sentence at the start of the the second paragraph (Allen has also written four plays for the stage, including contributing sketches to the Broadway revue From A to Z, and the Broadway productions Don't Drink the Water (1966) and Play It Again, Sam (1969).[1] ). In contrast, the awards not mentioned at all by name are four tables with a total of fourteen rows of information. So the awards sentence could be: Throughout his career, Allen has won three Oscars, eight BAFTA, one Golden Globe, two Directors Guild of America, one American Comedy, and two Berlin International Film Festival awards. with the added words still less than those already there about the theater. Note this does not include the awards not mentioned in the article (see additional concerns, below) i.e. WGA, Cesar, Cannes, and Venice. Television work would also have to be addressed here if included, see below. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 16:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Additional concern 1: Despite the title being "filmography" I can understand including the theater work, but why is his television work excluded? He does the same things there (write, direct, act) as he does in films or theater. Allmovie lists several television entries, including some short films made for TV.
 * Think I took care of your concerns. The only things I left out are archival appearances.  Let me know if the changes are satisfactory. Drewcifer (talk) 20:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is still not addressed. Here is my argument - the list is a Filmography, so I can see either excluding both his theater and television work (not films) or including both (all his work), but not including theater and excluding television. I do not see where you made any additions of television material to this list, but the sources you provide list much (all?) he has done in TV. Either get rid of the theater work (and make the title correct) or include the television work. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand what you're saying, but I think I've covered everything (except archival appearances, as I mentioned above). Is there something in specific you think I'm missing?  I went through the AMG source and added in anything that wasn't already included.  Am I missing something? Drewcifer (talk) 07:44, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not understand what "archival appearances" are. Looking here in the Allmovie biography it says he worked five years in TV as a writer for Your Show of Shows and Pat Boone and was nominated for an Emmy. It also says In 1969 Allen directed two short films for a CBS television special: Cupid's Shaft, a satire of Charlie Chaplin's City Lights, and an adaptation of Pygmalion in which he appeared as a rabbi.. Here at Hollywood.com (Full Biography) it says he also wrote for The Colgate Comedy Hour at the start of his TV career, and notes Allen returned to TV to adapt, direct and co-star in a small screen remake of "Don't Drink the Water" (ABC, 1994). He and Peter Falk filmed a TV version of Neil Simon's "The Sunshine Boys" for CBS in 1995, that finally aired in December 1997 to generally unfavorable notices. Under Milestones it notes he was in 1964 First guest-host to replace Johnny Carson on "The Tonight Show" (NBC). Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 18:24, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Additional concern 2: Why are some of his awards not listed? He won a Cannes Film Festival Palme des Palmes Special Lifetime Achievement in 2002, Writers Guild of America awards, Venice Film festival, French Cesar. I think these are as notable as some of the awards listed already. Perhaps a miscellaneous list of awards? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify here - if you inlcude the Directors Guild nominations and awards, I think you have to include the Writers Guild too. If you inlcude the Berlin Film Festival, you have to include Cannes and Venice. If you include the (US) Academy Awards (and nominations) and (British) BAFTAs, you have to include the French Cesar stuff. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I hope this helps, overall good work, but needs some improvements for FL status. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:55, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Good work so far, but the lede section is a little bare. At a minimum, can you add some citations for his awards and nominations? JKBrooks85 (talk) 11:25, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I expanded the lead a bit to include domestic gross total/averages, as well as to mention non-fiction appearances. However, I'm not sure what you mean by the article needing more citations. The awards and nominations are covered by the general references listed at the end of the page (namely the AMG source). Drewcifer (talk) 20:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.