Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of Zimbabwean national cricket captains/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list removal nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was kept by Dabomb87 16:26, 31 October 2009.

List of Zimbabwean national cricket captains

 * Notified:WT:WikiProject Cricket, WT:WikiProject Zimbabwe

I am nominating this for featured list removal because there are no FLRCs. OK, there are several issues in here that make me believe this list is no longer a FL.  Cheetah   (talk)  04:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

More comments may be added later.-- Cheetah  (talk)  04:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The page needs to be updated because there were no actual edits made since the last FLRC in February 2008.
 * I think I've updated it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The lead is not written well enough
 * 2) The lead should be written in chronological order to avoid sentences with "before"
 * Not really, it gives useful background on what happened before Zim joined the ICC. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The first sentence is obvious and should be removed
 * Reworded. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The parentheses should be avoided, especially the way they're used here.
 * Parentheses seem to have disappeared. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) In the Test match captains section
 * 2) The very first sentence is redundant
 * Reworded. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) "they are scheduled to play India in 2008" - It's the end of 2009, what happened to that game?
 * Gone before I got here. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Stuart Carlisle has a dagger next to him and the explanation in this page is very ambiguous since it gives two interpretations.
 * Per notes below. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The table has a very redundant header "Zimbabwean Test match captains" - should be removed
 * Redundant headers gone. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The years should be changed 1992/3 → 1992/93
 * Years changed. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The headers for all tables are redundant
 * Per note above. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) How reliable is Cricket Archive? The list of contributors is 404, can't really verify

-- Cheetah  (talk)  01:01, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Last comments
 * I am a little confused with the "years" column of the Men's One Day International captains section. John Traicos has "1987/98" with a slash while Tatenda Taibu has "2004–2005/06" with a dash. What's the difference?
 * A little bit of cricket esotericness I guess. Cricket seasons run in the summer in the Northern Hemisphere and are contained within a single year or winter in the Southern Hemispehere and span the end of one year and the beginning of the next, hence the range with the slash....  So I imagine Taibu's first test was a Northern Hemisphere test and his last was a Southern Hemisphere one... The Rambling Man (talk) 12:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Based on your explanation, shouldn't Traicos have 1987/88-1997/98?-- Cheetah  (talk)  00:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, that was a typo, it should have been 1987/88 only. Good spot though. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Also 1.2 and 1.3 sections should not have "Men's".
 * Quite so. Removed. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * }


 * Comment from Mattinbgn
 * "I am nominating this for featured list removal because there are no FLRCs" I assume this comment is an attempt at humour.
 * "How reliable is Cricket Archive?" This is a topic that has been widely discussed at WP:CRICKET and in many, many cricket-related FAC discussions for articles in which it has been used. The general consensus has been that it is as reliable a source as can be found and certainly as reliable as the main alternatives, Cricinfo and Howstat. It has an (unsourced) Wikipedia article giving Philip Bailey as a general editor. In turn information on Bailey can be found here (scroll down). The world of cricket statistics can be an area of passionate disagreement over quite esoteric points of difference but there is no dispute over the material cited here whatsover. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattinbgn (talk • contribs)
 * OK!-- Cheetah  (talk)  06:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment
 * The lead sentence is iffy, and I can't really re-work it, but "men and boys" just seems like the prelude to a flowery speech.
 * The dagger meaning can be simplified: it means someone who captained Zimbabwe for only part of that series. That covers one Test captaincy. SGGH ping! 10:18, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I'll see what I can do to help this list out. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I think I've attended to the specifics above, with help from other contributors before I got here. Anything else? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Great job! The only remaining issue I see is the parentheses in the second paragraph of the lead. Also there is a link "India" that takes to the Pakistani team's page.-- Cheetah  (talk)  19:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. I'll get onto that tomorrow.  If anyone sees anything else, don't hesitate to shout.  Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * How does it look now? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:03, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments – Quite good, except for a couple minor issues I found during a reading.
 * "As of October 2009, 14 cricketers who have captained the Zimbabwean cricket team for at least one One Day International." Remove "who".
 * Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Do we need all these repeated captain and Zimbabwe cricket team links in the lead-ins for the various tables?  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 23:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, so reduced completely. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 09:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep -- Cheetah  (talk)  19:33, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments I'm still quite new at reviewing, but there's I guess there's only one way to learn: Hope that helps, WFCforLife (talk) 00:28, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Following on from what Giants has said, why shouldn't the general sources be cited inline for their sections? This isn't an objection per se, I was just wondering why it isn't necessary?
 * I think it would be potentially overkill as you would end up with the same reference possibly being used dozens of times. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's an example of what I meant. Again, this isn't opposition, I was just wondering why it's done this way. WFCforLife (talk) 12:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I guess it's a matter of taste. I have seen whole tables referenced with a single reference, and I've seen individual lines all referenced with the same.  Your edit is fine, but others may argue that an in-line reference like that may simply be referencing the previous sentence, not the data following.  Unless there's specific guidance (that I'm not aware of), I suspect there are many ways to skin this particular cat... The Rambling Man (talk) 12:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's fine by me. I'm still quite new to this and as you say, the guidance doesn't seem particularly clear (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). Thanks. WFCforLife (talk) 13:34, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The image caption needs a full stop.
 * No, it's an incomplete sentence so no full stop needed. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. WFCforLife (talk) 12:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a key is needed to explain the annotation for years, particularly in the ODI section. Taking Andy Flower as an example, does 1993/94–2000 mean that he was temporarily captain for a period in 1993, and then captain from 1994 until 2000? Or does it mean that he was captain from the 1993/94 season until some point in 2000? Prosper Utseya is arguably slighly more confusing.
 * Yeah, it is possibly confusing to those who don't understand cricket seasons. Will add something.  The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks good.
 * A ref at the end of the Streak affair sentence would probably be beneficial. The wikilink is a good source of further reading and should remain, but shouldn't be used in lieu of a reference.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * From WP:MOSNUM, "Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures: we may write either 5 cats and 32 dogs or five cats and thirty-two dogs, not five cats and 32 dogs." Therefore the opening paragraph should say "...Zimbabwe have had seven Test captains, fourteen One Day International captains and one Twenty20 captain,"
 * Indeed. Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Unconditional keep, although I would be grateful for an answer to my last question for future reference. WFCforLife (talk) 12:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Keep - Looks fine now.  Aaroncrick  ( talk ) 09:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Keep – Good job by TRM to bring this one back to FL standard.  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 20:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.