Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of awards and nominations received by Crowded House/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list removal nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was kept by  Pres N  03:23, 5 July 2015 (UTC).

List of awards and nominations received by Crowded House

 * Notified: Rm w a vu (nominator), WikiProject Australian music, WikiProject Australia

I am nominating this for featured list removal because I don't believe it meets the featured list criteria. It was promoted more than seven years ago and hasn't aged well:


 * This is a list of awards won by Australian band Crowded House. we haven't started lists like this in years; plus MOS:BOLDTITLE violations ✅


 * Dash violations in references ✅


 * Reference 2 lacks page information ✅


 * I'm not sure why ARIA and APRA awards are separated, when they could be combined under a column header ✅


 * Text under "History", "ARIA Awards", and "APRA Awards" should be merged to lead ✅


 * Awards in "Other Awards" should be merged to singular "Awards" column ✅


 * Table needs !scope="row" tags per MOS:ACCESS ✅


 * "See also" section needs a clear because it breaks the "References" section below ✅


 * Some searching needs to be done for any awards won over the past seven years ✅

Overall, some large structural issues, primarily combining tables and combining all text sections. The list currently is not at 2015 featured list standards. Seattle (talk) 09:26, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Together with Dan arndt, I am tackling these issues.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:52, 12 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I have a question re: dot point 4: combining ARIA and APRA awards. Could you show me where these awards have been combined in any FL article? I'd like to see what it would look like. However, I really don't know why they should be: they are provided by two separate award-giving bodies for different areas of the music industry. It is akin to combining BRIT Awards with Ivor Novello Awards, or Grammy Awards with ASCAP Awards.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:52, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It would look similar to List of accolades received by The Dirty Picture, with "Year" substituted for "Date of ceremony". I think that list looks much cleaner than this list, in its current state. We wouldn't necessarily be comparing the ARIA awards to the APRA awards, because each award would be spanned to the governing body. The advantages are a singular list without the stilted headings, and the ability to sort for works across all awards, instead counting how many times an award was nominated over three tables. Outside of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, why should the current format be kept? Seattle (talk) 21:32, 13 June 2015 (UTC) ✅

I believe that all the identified issues listed above have now been addressed and the article mets the featured list criteria.Dan arndt (talk) 13:13, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Outstanding issues that I've noticed (though it's looking a ton better already!):
 * There were a few places where you used a comma rather than a colon/semicolon- I changed it myself, but just something to keep in mind in the future. ✅
 * I guess it's fine, but it keeps throwing me that you treat "Crowded House" as a plural noun- I keep wanting it to be "Crowded House is a band", not "are a band".✅
 * The reference column should be center-aligned; easy way to fix it is to click the magnifying glass/pencil icon in the upper right (search and replace), and replace "|<ref" with "|align="center"|<ref"- this will fix all of them in one go. ✅
 * The row and col scopes are messed up- where you have scope="row" it should be col, and you should have scope="row" just before the year cell, like "|scope="row" rowspan="7"| 1987". Also, you don't have a scope on one (and only one) of the columns? ✅
 * The big one: why aren't the tables sortable? Looks like it wouldn't take much- change the table class from "wikitable" to "wikitable sortable", add "class="unsortable"" to the reference column, use the Sort template to make sure the songs don't get sorted by the quote marks while the non-songs get correctly sorted by the first letter, and link the few things that aren't linked already in the table.✅
 * There's some minor things- Four Seasons In One Day should be lower-case i, there's a handful of redirecting links (Brit award, BMI award, MTV award), but nothing else big. -- Pres N  02:41, 15 June 2015 (UTC) ✅

In fact none of the featured list of awards and nominations for musicians appears in the form as outlined in the comments. Is this just one reviewers personal preference or is there a common standard? We believe we've addressed all the issues to date and are prepared to make any further changes but would appreciate feedback on the article as it currently stands. Dan arndt (talk) 06:22, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:50, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: I'm in the middle of moving across the country and won't be able to check this for a few days; it's hard to review things on a phone. Don't worry about this being delisted; that's very unlikely at this point as far as I can tell. -- Pres N  03:22, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, having now taken a look at this (and added in links- in sortable tables, you link every instance, not just the "first", since that changes based on how the reader sorts the table) I'm fine with keeping it as an FL- it doesn't appear that there's a standard for single-table vs multiple tables for this kind of list, and while I personally would have gone with a single table so as to be able to sort everything together, I'm not going to oppose over it, and overall the list seems back up to par now. I'll leave this up for a few more days as I'm a little busy to do the actual closing, so if anyone else has concerns feel free to give them before I get back around to closing the nomination. -- Pres N  16:48, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I support the single table, but holding this list to a standard not held to other featured lists seems unfair. I do have some comments, though:


 * "|scope="row"" tags should be "!scope="row"" tags, and "plainrowheaders" should be added to "wikitable sortable" ✅


 * of a popular New Zealand-originated rock group how do you define "popular"? "Popular" is a PEACOCK term ✅


 * Crowded House's fan base was already established before any material was recorded. They... How were they already established before the band recorded material? Do you have a reference? Also, "they" after the sentence sounds like you're referring to the fans that recorded material ✅


 * APRA also named their track, "Don't Dream It's Over", sounds like APRA's song. ✅


 * Crowded House performed in an array of venues and through this, earned industry and fan credibility How has they're performance "in an array of venues" increased industry and fan credibility? ✅


 * File:Crowded-house1.JPG: Source URL is dead; the file needs to go through OTRS to ensure that the actual author released the file under a WP-friendly license


 * (including the seventh best Australian song of all time) you've mentioned this earlier, you don't need to mention it again. ✅


 * They also had two other songs ... The group also won repetitive prose ✅


 * They dissolved in 1996 the BRIT awards, or Crowded House? ✅


 * I'm not sure that you can count "Triple J" awards as wins in the infobox ✅


 * Eight of their ARIA Awards were won in the band's earlier years from their first two albums I don't think "in the band's earlier years" is needed here ✅


 * with the line-up of Finn, Hester and Nick Seymour (bass guitar, backing vocals) this needs disambiguation: I'm not sure to whom "backing vocals" and "bass guitar" goes. Can you rework to: "with the line-up of Finn, Hester and Nick Seymour, who plays bass guitar and provides backing vocals." ✅


 * APRA Awards were established in 1982 to honour the achievements of songwriters and music composers, and to recognise their songwriting skills, sales and airplay performance, by its members annually. sentence doesn't make sense ✅


 * The awards are one of the most significant awards that a group or artist can receive in music in New Zealand do you have a reference for this? What does "significant" mean? ✅


 * Refs 16–21 need ndashes.✅ Seattle (talk) 18:31, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've had a go at all of these.
 * For the infobox photo I went to Commons and updated the url. At wp:en, I put a note on the uploader's talkpage. On the source's website find "Copyright" where the uploader/author exerts their ownership of this photo (amongst others) and gives permission for its use on wp. I added this permission link be added to the Commons' file.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I believe that we have addressed all the issues that you've raised in your comments. If there's anything that we've missed then let us know. Dan arndt (talk) 23:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Are you okay with not delisting this list now? Or do you think it should be delisted? -- Pres N  01:14, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I vote to keep this as a featured list. I'm really glad editors picked this up. It's gone from this to this. Thanks again. Seattle (talk) 01:52, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

month of releases removed from lead. Can you identify any other issues - as happy to address. Dan arndt (talk) 12:35, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Prose wise, there are still issues. Stray commas, a colon out of nowhere... — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:12, 26 June 2015 (UTC) ✅
 * Still multiple considerations (why list the months of releases in the lead, for instance)? I think we need one or two prose reviews before this is closed as keep. The meat of the issue's been addressed, but there's still work to be done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 08:46, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I really shouldn't have to. The lead needs a good copyedit, period. Especially with an eye for removing extraneous detail (hint, hint). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:38, 26 June 2015 (UTC) ✅

have gone over the lead & removed extraneous comment but it is hard to address your issue if you don't provide a clear indication as to what exactly your concerns are. As previously indicated we are prepared to make any changes required, as shown by our efforts over the last three weeks, but need to know what you believe needs to be amended first. Dan arndt (talk) 14:48, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

I've had the Guild of Copy Editors review the lead and a full copy edit has been completed. This should address any concerns. As such the list should now satisfy the FL criteria. Dan arndt (talk) 04:16, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * RL is keeping me busy. I have to leave this for another delegate to handle (though I'd recheck that third paragraph if I were you). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 04:28, 3 July 2015 (UTC) ✅
 * We have re-edited the third paragraph, which hopefully should address all your concerns now. Dan arndt (talk) 08:39, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:10, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Okay, if Chris is happy now, and I am too, then closing this FLRC as 'Keep. -- Pres N  03:22, 5 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.