Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was kept by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 2 November 2018 (UTC).

Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice

 * Notified: Iridescent, WikiProject Public Art/London.
 * Also pinging, , , , and , all of whom were involved in the move discussion. Ham II (talk) 16:32, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

This article had its featured list star removed by following this discussion to move it from the title List of tablets on the Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice, but it was never submitted to FLRC. Ham II (talk) 14:14, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't know why a simple page move would result in a page losing the status it resceived following a community discussion and concomitant consensus; it seems rather out of process to say the least. After all: There's nothing here to fail the featured list criteria, and it's not—as—if—it's—a—requirement—to—contain—the—word——anywhere—in—the—title, is it.  —SerialNumber54129  paranoia / cheap sh*t room 14:49, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * A page move is not a valid reason to delist a featured list... TonyBallioni (talk) 15:24, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know much about lists, but the logic expressed by Tony Baloney and Chanel No. 9 seems right to me. Meanwhile, for some tragic relief see User:EEng. EEng 3:12 pm, Today (UTC−4)
 * I see it is in response to User:Gonnym comment at the move discussion, "if this stops being a list, be sure to remove the featured list tag. I doubt the current state of the article would get a FA as the lead section has information (basically all of it) that is not present in the article violating MOS:LEAD (which the list might in-fact also be doing, but I'm unsure how FL assessment worksAnd where it also seems they are equally unsure about how FL-demotion occurs. —SerialNumber54129  paranoia / cheap sh*t room 16:39, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Appears so. I've gone ahead and restored the bronze star thingy since there was no consensus to delist. Of course, if for some reason there's consensus to delist here, it can be done then. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:49, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The featured status should be reinstated / not removed from this page, as there is no reason why is fails the criteria. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me &#124; my contributions 16:37, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Rmove - First of all, I didn't start this removal process, if I had done so, I would actually come with the backup for why it should be removed. But since it already started, and you're all fast to save this undeserving article, then let's start. First yes, the change in the article makes the scope of the article not a list. It talks about the monument itself. The list in it, is just a sub-section of the article. A lot of regular articles have lists sub-sections. So with that, it fails Featured list criteria #1 - the lead does not define the scope of the inclusion criteria. In addition, it fails #5 as it violates MOS:LEAD, the table violates WP:ACCESSIBILITY, the images in the table have a copy/paste alt text - not even trying, the reference section violates MOS:HEAD. It fails #3 as the the only section is "Tablets on the Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice". Where is the history of the monument, the development, controversies, public reaction? Some of the notes aren't even sources which violate WP:V. This is without even trying to find what is wrong with this article. I'm not sure how you all just look at this and find it all ok. --Gonnym (talk) 18:01, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

A few points of order, speaking as an FL delegate:
 * Renaming/moving an FL is not grounds to automatically delist
 * FLs should not be delisted in any case without an FLRC discussion, especially if the article continues to exist (e.g. is not a redirect)
 * At first glance, this article is still mostly composed of a table, with some explanatory text above, and so would generally be considered a "list"

All that said, has mentioned several issues with the list that would/could lead to it being delisted. I'm not going to weigh in on the list's merits right now, but nominating oddities aside in my opinion this is a perfectly valid FLRC and should continue as such- if consensus is that Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice is not FL quality, it will be delisted, otherwise it will not. -- Pres N  21:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep some of the "issues" mentioned above aren't really issues at all, and it strikes me that this is one of those occasions that it would have been much easier and more profitable for all concerns for those trivial items to be addressed by modifying the article rather this rather unnecessary course of action. A few comments: (a) it doesn't need to say "list" for it to be a list article, that's nonsense, we have literally thousands of featured lists which don't have "list" in the title.  There's no clear indication as to what the "inclusion criteria" needs to be here now the article is the main article about the memorial, but if one wanted to add a single sentence to cover that the list section includes all the tablets, that'd be just fine.  The alt text is just fine so there's no access concerns at all.  If anyone wishes to expand the article to cover more of the items noted above, feel free to do so.  Note [a] could use a ref but all other notes are just fine.  So, please, let's all just relax a bit and work on identifying fixes here.  And as for "This is without even trying to find what is wrong with this article", see WP:NOTPERFECT and WP:POINT.  This article had a community consensus to promote to FL, and as far as I can see, not much has changed since then.  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:19, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. There is very little wrong with this article and some of the issues mentioned above have been fixed. I would delete the discontinued mobile app in the lead and external links. Dudley Miles (talk) 12:02, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * ,, this one is done. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:25, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

There does not seem to be a consensus to delist, so closing as kept. -- Pres N  02:11, 1 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.