Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Apollo Bay Pano

Apollo Bay
Voting period ends on 12 Jul 2010 at 16:41:53 (UTC)
 * Reason:Nicely illustrates the key features of the town in good detail showing how they link together and fit into the surroundings; the significant number of people in action throughout the picture add a bit of further interest. Good quality, and despite only being in one article, provides good EV.
 * Articles in which this image appears:Apollo Bay, Victoria
 * FP category for this image:Featured pictures/Places/Panorama
 * Creator:jjron


 * Support as nominator --jjron (talk) 16:41, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose I find myself reflexively tilting my head, trying to see more off the bottom of the panorama. Also, the overcast day lends to a gloomy feel. Also, the scene appears to be a bunch of grass with some trees and just isn’t terribly interesting looking. These things aren’t fixable in Photoshop. I can certainly see that this image has excellent EV in illustrating the subject Apollo Bay; we should have more of these panoramas to illustrate places on Wikipedia. It’s just that this particular panorama doesn’t rise to FP-status in its genre. Greg L (talk) 20:33, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing more to see at the bottom but more grass. I actually cropped some of it off as those fence posts etc you can see the tops of started looking messy. Neither here nor there anyway really cos you complain that there's too much grass as well, so would obviously oppose no matter what was there. --jjron (talk) 13:12, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It wasn't so much because of the EV of what's below the bottom of the frame, it was more just compositionally awkward cropped like that IMO. &#208;iliff    &#171;&#187;  (Talk)  13:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I had the same initial impression as Greg L. I think panoramas like this need more height - it feels particularly tight at the bottom. My main concern, though, is just that so much of the town is obscured and it doesn't illustrate the town very well. The infobox image in the article, if composed better and with more detail, would be better suited to a FP in my opinion. Still, it's a good image but just doesn't quite stand out for me. &#208;iliff    &#171;&#187;  (Talk)  20:42, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Per above, more height would add nothing. Re second concern, unfortunately I was limited by the physics of light. --jjron (talk) 13:12, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Per above, it would be an improvement to the composition though IMO, even if not to the EV. I don't think you were limited by the physics of light so much as by can't-be-bothered-cycling-to-the-top-of-the-lookout-to-take-a-panorama-with-a-better-view-of-the-town. ;-) &#208;iliff    &#171;&#187;  (Talk)  06:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually cycled by a lookout with a great view coming into town (looks to be on the opposite side of town to that other one), but after about 95km in the saddle and whizzing past it at about 40km at the time I couldn't be fagged stopping. :-) Seriously though, I don't think it's a good precedent to be suggesting that these panos of towns should be 'aerial' shots, as we'll have a lot of delisting to do... --jjron (talk) 16:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, don't get me wrong, I can sympathise with being on the saddle all day. :-) But I don't think any precedents were in question. I wasn't, as you alluded to, expecting that all existing panoramas be replaced by aerial shots in order to be FP quality. Plenty of subjects are perfectly well illustrated at ground level - it's just that this one isn't (IMO). It's about making the most of your environment. In this case, there is a perfectly located hill providing a good vantage point to better encapsulate the town - sure, it wouldn't have as good detail 'at street level', but I think you'd gain EV more from it. &#208;iliff    &#171;&#187;  (Talk)  16:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * My point being you're always going to see more of a place from the air, and you could oppose any ground-level pano for that reason. In some cases being higher up may give better EV, but for most pano shots I'd say it's more a case of different EV, not necessarily better EV. For example here, this image and the taxobox image show quite different things, so you're really comparing apples and oranges. --jjron (talk) 08:38, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I like it.--Mbz1 (talk) 21:25, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Should this be in the Great Ocean Road article?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:52, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No, IMO. Sure, the town is on the Great Ocean Road, but there's virtually no sign of it in this image - it illustrates thw town, not the road. I think particularly with panoramas given their awkward proportions, there really has to be high EV to justify inclusion in an article. &#208;iliff    &#171;&#187;  (Talk)  06:49, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree. I specifically didn't add it to that article for those reasons. FWIW I have some other images that better illustrate the GOR, which I'm going to add to that article shortly (not for FPC use though). --jjron (talk) 16:17, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose mostly per Greg L and Diliff. I don't think it illustrates either the town or the bay (the water probably takes up less than 2% of the image), and the low visibility probably meant that no (scenery) panorama shot on that day was going to come out great. Papa Lima Whiskey  (talk) 00:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose- this is a little gloomy looking, because of the weather, and it's not really crystal clear what's being illustrated. The bar's been set high with panoramas. J Milburn (talk) 10:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I hate to pile on here. It's a good image, overall, but I don't think it gives enough of a sense of the town - I've been there recently and didn't feel like this works to illusrate it. The other end of the park, by the sign, is where I would have taken an image. Featuring the Great Ocean Road and the town's orientation towards it is important. Mostlyharmless (talk) 12:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree, as you're just talking about a photo of the shopping strip; you see that and more here. I specifically for example wanted to include some of the golf course, which is rather iconic for the town, and a glimpse of how the town and golf course integrates with the bay. Photos from the other end of town show none of that. --jjron (talk) 16:32, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn to move things along and free up space - obviously not going to swing back from here. BTW, I'm disappointed guys. Five days, five opposes, and yet nobody picked up the pair of 'twins' to use in their vote. :-) --jjron (talk) 08:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

--J Milburn (talk) 09:19, 8 July 2010 (UTC)