Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Cretaceous fossils

Cretaceous fossils
Voting period ends on 18 Aug 2010 at 15:34:46 (UTC)


 * Reason:Great EV, great quality.
 * Articles in which this image appears:Fossils ; Paleontological sites of Lebanon;Cretaceous
 * FP category for this image:Featured pictures/Animals/Fish
 * Creator:Mbz1


 * Support as nominator --Mbz1 (talk) 15:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support Great EV, high resoloution.  WackyWace  converse 16:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Not seeing the EV. It's just another pic of a fossil in fossil, it doesn't illustrate anything in particular. In Paleontological sites of Lebanon it doesn't show much- just that there are fossils in Lebanon, which we know there are, that's why there's an article (and we have to take your word for it that it's from Lebanon anyway). It's just not showing anything. Compare to this image, which was recently promoted- that's being used to illustrate the species. J Milburn (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if one is looking for a reason to deny the oblivious, I mean EV, one could always find the reason, couldn't one? But your last tirade was way too much. You even doubt my words that the rock was found in Hakel, Lebanon! And to say "It's just not showing anything"... Unbelievable! The image you refer to shows one fish. The nominated image shows variety of marine organisms, and now it was added to Nematonotus "to illustrate the species".  So now what?--Mbz1 (talk) 18:29, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The EV is not at all obvious, for the reasons I stated. I do not doubt your word that it was found in Lebanon, but that does not mean that it has EV there (I think that was clear from the way I said it- I believe English is not your first language?). The point I was making is that there's nothing in the image that tells us this is from Lebanon- the fact it is from Lebanon is pretty irrelevant. If I was to write an article on Computer use in England and take a picture of my laptop, it doesn't automatically have EV, just because it's a computer in England. If this displayed something distinctive about fossils in Lebanon, then it would have EV, but the pure fact it's a fossil and from Lebanon does not mean it has EV in that usage. And no, it isn't showing anything of significance. Again, say I was to take the picture I mentioned- yes, it would show a laptop (just as this shows several fossils) but that laptop (and those several fossils) wouldn't be adding much to the article. Yes, the image I mentioned shows one fish. That's one fish in an article about said fish. This shows several animals, but was not used in an article about those animals, and so could in no way argue EV because of that. You have now added this to an article about one of the animals, but the fact that the image is crowded with other fossils does not make this an ideal illustration for that article. J Milburn (talk) 21:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure it does. It is fossil, but it shows a fish in its natural environment surrounded by other marine organisms. If anything it adds EV. If this image has no EV, I am not sure which does --Mbz1 (talk) 21:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It can hardly be said that the focus of the image is the fish... J Milburn (talk) 22:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course it is not. As I explained above the image shows the fish and the lobster in their natural environment, in the close proximity to each other. It is what gives the image EV. I could have taken a high resolution image of a fish only, but it would have meant to destry the work of the Nature.--Mbz1 (talk) 22:20, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * As the lead image in the article about the fish genus, I would expect an image of the fish. There could reasonably be other animals there, but the inclusion of the fish here is pretty much incidental- your choice of image name illustrates this neatly... J Milburn (talk) 23:48, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well the image should be renamed of course, but I am not sure what image's name has to do with image's EV. --Mbz1 (talk) 00:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just a fairly solid illustration of the fact that the image is not of the fish. J Milburn (talk) 10:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Support very interesting and very educational. Broccoli (talk) 19:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose, great picture, but not adding much to any of the articles in which it is used. J Milburn (talk) 21:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Info This apparently not encyclopedic image that "just not showing anything" is used on at least 7 pages of different Wikipedias, not counting English wikipedia. Oh well...--Mbz1 (talk) 06:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You're falling into the trap another regular here did recently- just because an image is used on lots of pages, does not mean that it has any EV in any of them. J Milburn (talk) 10:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support - Well, I see EV here.  Hive001   contact  08:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Where? Mbz1's not managed to convince me- what EV are you seeing? J Milburn (talk) 10:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * IMO you, J Milburn, are are getting too involved with the nomination, if you allow yourself to question other editors votes as that. IMO it is not a decent thing to do.--Mbz1 (talk) 11:22, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to work out where the EV is. You say it is there, but you're yet to say where, as far as I can see, and Hive001 says there is EV, and so I'm wondering where (s)he sees it. When there is disagreement, it'd be nice if people explained their statements, rather than just making them. You've made far more edits to this page than me, and have a clear interest in the image being promoted. You've also become unnecessarily defensive. If anyone's "too involved"... J Milburn (talk) 12:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Surely the lobster is more of the focus than the fish and so it should be added to the appropriate genus page, but as far as I can see it doesn't exist yet. I think it could be very useful for illustrating how long they've been around for. (P.S. I'm generally a lurker on here, but felt a comment would help the discussion. TerriG)137.73.38.169 (talk) 14:04, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comment, 137.73.38.169. I added the image to Lobster. This image (that "just not showing anything") actually depicts lobster's antennas in the greater details than any image of a live animal used in the article is. --Mbz1 (talk) 15:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pseudostacus is not even listed in the article as a genus of lobsters... This is getting ridiculous. J Milburn (talk) 19:04, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not the only one who noticed... This is approaching spamming. As has been said, adding the image to as many articles as possible does not give it EV. J Milburn (talk) 19:06, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Spamming???? I am really sick and tired of your childish accusations.Please stop it, grow up! The same user removed image added by Muhammad today. I guess Muhammad is spamming too in your opinion? Mbz1 (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, spamming. Placing the image in articles in which it doesn't belong in the hope it will make people believe it has more EV than it does. Please stop playing the victim, it's not going to achieve anything. J Milburn (talk) 23:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This is a great picture searching for encyclopedic value. It doesn't belong in Lobster and the Nematonotus article is a single sentence. It has a little bit of value in the other articles, but they wouldn't be much worse without it. Kaldari (talk) 22:01, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Tell you what. When I nominated the image I thought somebody would complain about the quality, but even in a very bad dream I could not imagine this absolutely unique, high resolution image would be opposed because it has no EV. I even have no words to describe what I feel about that. It is very, very wrong, but you know what let's delete that stupid image altogether. It "just not showing anything", it does not add any value to the articles it appears in, and the nominator is spamming. --Mbz1 (talk) 22:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I wanted to withdraw the nomination, but I decided I will not, if for nothing else just to keep the record of ... and laugh over it later on. After all it is one of the best images in Cretaceous --Mbz1 (talk) 22:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Look, you don't seem to quite understand what EV actually means. You've not really addressed the points, you've just got incredibly upset. You can't win them all, and if you can't take criticism, I don't think you should really be putting your work forward for review like this. As we have all said, the picture quality is high, so this is in no way an attack upon you, your picture or your abilities- as you know, I have supported your work in the past, even in cases where others haven't. We have to judge the use of the image on the encyclopedia, not just the image itself. J Milburn (talk) 23:44, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Am I allowed to have my own opinion and express it? So, IMO the rock (and the image of the rock) have great EV. IMO it is one of the best or the best image for Cretaceous and for Paleontological sites of Lebanon If there was no this image, I wound not have written the article Paleontological sites of Lebanon at all. I believe that sooner or later the image will be added to one of lobster/crayfish articles. I believe I have done nothing wrong with this nomination. IMO it is laughable to say the image has no EV, and this was my last comment here. I am taking the nomination off my watch list.--Mbz1 (talk) 01:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Is the fossil particularly characteristic of Lebanon or the Cretaceous? Or is the fact it is from them pretty much coincidental? This would be like claiming a photograph of a field in England has EV in England, purely because it happens to be in England. Just because it is in England, doesn't mean it is automatically worthy of support... J Milburn (talk) 10:44, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Support rare, great EV -- George Chernilevsky  talk 04:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Where is this EV? I wish people would stop asserting EV and actually explain it... J Milburn (talk) 10:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I wasn't gonna vote on this so I could close it, but I love this image. How can a high-quality and luckily clear and easy-to-make out fossil be said not have EV? To the fossil article? I'm seriously seeing too many votes claiming little or no EV on images that clearly do have it. If you don't like an image or don't think it should be featured you should explain why in a better way. My one criticism of this is that black might've been a better background color choice. -- I'ḏ ♥  One  05:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that every image of a fossil automatically has EV? EV should be our first concern, so it's hardly a spurious reason to oppose... J Milburn (talk) 10:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Two comments 1. If you're saying the image doesn't have EV for those articles (which I still sort of disagree with) then I say we create appropriate articles for the species shown in the fossil. 2. Can't see the ALT, can you make a JPG or SVG version, Mbz? -- I'ḏ ♥  One  00:46, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, it'd be good if you explained the EV, rather than merely asserting it. Two other points- these animals are not identified to species level, and svg is not appropriate for photographs. J Milburn (talk) 10:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It has EV because the fortunate high quality of something preserved millions of years ago and very well photographed recently is indisputably educational to issues related to fossilization. Fossils are also pretty rare, so even though they might not have been explained yet very well I think this is still feature-worthy material. -- I'ḏ ♥  One  15:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Fossils are not at all rare. I could walk outside with my camera now and be back in two hours with pictures of loads of them- I wouldn't even need to cheat and take pictures of the ornamental ones dotted around my house. For something FP-worthy for its use in fossil, I'd want to see something a lot more impressive than this. J Milburn (talk) 17:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I did not add alternating, LucasBrown did, and I cannot see it either. I only have another image with a black background that I linked to bellow. About EV, I cannot understand how one could say it has no EV at least in Cretaceous. It shows the variety of different fossils for that period. About writing an article, it has been discussed already  --Mbz1 (talk) 02:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. But yes, black would make a better background.  --Lucas Brown 04:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I've created a black-background version but appear to have messed up the upload--including, for some reason, uploading it to "File_shrimp_black.png" intead of "Fossil_shrimp_black.png", among other mess-ups. But hey, it's my first uploading...  If anybody wants to fix it, go ahead.  --Lucas Brown 05:16, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I do have another image File:Pseudostacus Sp from Lebanon.jpg with a black background, but maybe an overall quality is better in the original one.--Mbz1 (talk) 05:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment: If this is going to pass based on its EV for fossil, paleontological sites of Lebanon or Cretaceous, it should be listed under geology (or perhaps biology), as it is being used to illustrate fossils rather than the animals specifically. J Milburn (talk) 10:49, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Caution: As already mentioned, the fish is not Nematonotus but diplomystus birdii!--Archaeodontosaurus (talk) 08:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the lobster's ID was printed at the rock, when I bought it. I sent the image to the export, who ID the two fishes, but looks like you are sure that one fish's ID was made in error. It is fixed now.Thanks.--Mbz1 (talk) 13:00, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment : Perfect now --Archaeodontosaurus (talk) 14:01, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't seem the request for a black version can be satisfied at this time because the one presented doesn't thumbnail. I note that supports were not conditional on a black background, so those who asked for it can try "delist and replace" nominating a black version when a functioning one becomes available. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 06:44, 19 August 2010 (UTC)