Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Dublin Rail Network

Dublin Rail Network

 * Reason:Compelling, informative, high resolution image which adds greater understanding to the oft confusing topic at hand - Dublin's rail network.
 * Articles this image appears in:Dublin Suburban Rail
 * Creator:Stabilo boss








 * Support as nominator --howth575 (talk) 08:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support A clear,easily understandable depiction which shows the lines in relation to each other and position in the city simply and without confusion. Is it possible to distinguish the Metro West and North lines any more clearly? The colourings look remarkably similar to me Lemon martini (talk) 11:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I see your point, and unfortunately its not so easy, Unlike London or say Munich, Dart and Irish Rail Lines are not colour coded, the Luas Lines are because they were developed by a separate entity, Who haven't specified a colour coding for the Metro or the third Luas Line. I may edit it to show a different hue. I would have used SVG if illustrator didn't have a habit of mucking up the Fonts... Stabilo boss (talk) 14:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Second Pic. Super EV. :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 18:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment New Version added...Stabilo boss (talk) 18:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 *  Comment Support Support edit 1. --Uncle Bungle (talk) 22:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose while it may have encyclopedic value, IMO it is boring, sorry. Muhammad (talk) 02:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose per above. No "wow"... Good enc, though. --Janke | Talk 08:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment The 'wow' comes from the fact that half the subject matter in the image is yet to be constructed, and as such could be construed as something of a record of the ambitions etc for Dublin, similar to Abercrombie's unrealised plans. howth575 (talk) 11:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment A featured picture is not always required to be aesthetically pleasing; it might be shocking, impressive, or just highly informative. Highly graphic, historical and otherwise unique images may not have to be classically beautiful at all. I didn't see 'wow' on the list of criteria anywhere...
 * It's people reading in their bias into their votes because they think it should have have "wow" like a photo nom because most of the nominations are photographs while being ignorant to the fact that an illustration or diagram is never going to have wow compared to a photograph but can have a wow factor vs other diagrams. It's unfortunate that current FPC guidelines encourage this type of vote since it leads to most diagram noms failing for no good reason other than the voting block of the ignorant anti diagram group. Cat-five - talk 08:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * An illustration can have wow factor. Look at the images created by LadyofHats. The images are both encyclopedic and wowwy. This image however, is like a map of the place. A map does have EV but we cant feature all maps can we? Muhammad (talk) 02:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "wow" didn't save this nomination. If the creator added some flying cats or other ridiculous non-sense would that add enough "wow" to support? The fact is the diagram adds a lot to the article. --Uncle Bungle (talk) 21:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support edit 1 High enc. value. I'm afraid it's impossible to make a schematic of metro rail lines as exciting as a battle or a beautiful runway model, but this is a clear and informative image that serves its purpose well.  Durova Charge! 18:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support either. No wow needed, even though its a positive factor. Pie is good   (Apple is the best)  01:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support I prefer the London subway system personally, because it is a more interesting example and partially because it has more to show in my opinion, however this has good ev content and is a well done diagram. Cat-five - talk 08:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - can't vouch for the accuracy (I didn't even know Dublin had trains!), but I see wow. Stevage 00:26, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose Just a generic map. You've seen one you've seen them all - why should we feature this one in particular? I'm not saying it's not useful in an article but useful map does not equal FP --Abdominator (talk) 04:11, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comments/Questions/Suggestions. (Note: all these relate to Edit 1, and some look to not have been an issue in the Original.) At the risk of being labelled as one of “the voting block of the ignorant anti diagram group” (who incidentally aren’t working too successfully as a voting block or group here – hmm, go figure), the thing about diagrams is that they can be easily corrected and improved. So on that note, I will list a few observations – act on them at your will, as this will likely be promoted regardless:
 * 1) Why the inconsistent use of font sizes? Is that meant to indicate major and minor places/stations, is it just a convenience, or an error. See for example the bottom of the Green/Yellow line along the water with the stations on the green side in a bigger font than those on the yellow line. This occurs in many other places with station names. And the font size on the ‘Northern Intercity and Commuter’ is considerably bigger than any of the other Intercities. Why?
 * 2) Alignments of names with stations are inconsistent – see for example Killmacud, Stillorgan, Sandyford, one after the other, but all aligned at different heights with the station indicators.
 * 3) On a similar note, some station names are too close to, or overlap, the station indicator – it looks a bit sloppy and in some cases is hard to read. Some examples, Sydney Parade, Windy Arbour, St. James.
 * 4) Inconsistent spacing when using slashes – see for example Salthill / Monkstown (with spaces) vs Sandycove/Glasthule (no spaces).
 * 5) Some abbreviations I’m unclear on (and they may well be correct). Should DCU and N.A.C. be initials or should they be written out in full?  Why does one have full stops and the other doesn’t? Ditto for S.C. Also I know what St., Rd. & Ave. are for example (do they need the fullstops after them?), but what is Jc.? And is the ampersand in Rush & Lusk technically correct – seems unusual?
 * 6) Shouldn’t the icons be keyed? E.g., what is the anchor? Does that just indicate water, or is it indicating specific locations of say docks? If it’s just indicating water then I’d move them well away from station names.
 * 7) I was wondering about using PNG vs SVG and saw your comment above about it, and I’m not really sure – how do others get SVG to work successfully? An issue is that this is illegible at anything below full image size (not only thumbnail, but even image page size is basically unreadable, and I’ve gotta say I don't think that’s really ideal).
 * 8) I’m wondering why no one has requested references be stated on the image page (just interested, because they normally do with, say, the LadyOfHats biological diagrams).
 * It does look an informative and neat diagram, and I don’t mean to be too picky, but I felt obliged to comment given the derogatory statements made by an earlier contributor directed at those opposing. A significant part of the reason that a lot of diagrams fail is nothing whatsoever to do with “the voting block of the ignorant anti diagram group”, but is rather more to do with diagrams containing basic errors and problems that can be easily fixed (along with the work taken to review them properly discouraging voters). I mean, with all the ‘minor’ issues I’ve listed here, apparently no one else has noticed them, looked for them, or taken the time and effort to comment (and I know some contributors have commented before that they simply don't see those things themselves if they're not pointed out). Now that may mean they're insignificant for some people, but to me a diagram needs that sort of perfection to make it ‘featureable’. --jjron (talk) 10:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment I'll answer two of the above, out of my own knowledge:
 * 5. D.C.U. (Dublin City University) and N.A.C. (National Aquatic Centre) are both sets of initials. Jc. is junction. In my experience, Ireland is somewhere in the middle of American and British conventions regarding the use of full stops for initials and contractions, probably leaning toward the former. Therefore, I'd leave full stops in for them all. Rush & Lusk is correct - that's the name of the station.
 * 6. The anchor refers to the ferry ports near Point Sq. and at Dún Laoghaire. I agree, they should be keyed.
 * I'll also add two:
 * 9. It's just a minor grammatical error but there should be apostrophes in the following: St. Stephen's Green; St. Brigid's; St. James'.
 * 10. "Underground Dart" might want to be changed to "Dart Interconnector", since that's the name being thrown around for that tunnel in most of the planning documents.
 * 11. The planned intercity line to Navan isn't in the key, and the broken line used to show it is different from the broken lines used to show other planned lines.
 * So, I'm neutral right now, but I'll have no problem strongly supporting once these problems are fixed up. The enc. value is excellent. -- Schcambo aon scéal? 20:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Strike this vote (see below). -- Schcambo aon scéal? 21:14, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak support It's a nice svg, but it's a weak support from me. I want to know a little more about the rail network, but the image doesn't have a lot of "wow", as said above. In addition, I like this better than another rail network FP: Image:Madrid-metro-map.png, because it provides more context for the rail system (the water).  Spencer T♦C 00:51, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment by Author
 * 1. Font Sizes: Poor Editing on my Behalf. Should all be same, and all were in the Orignal but started moving them around due to SVG Problems noted below. Then Tried Changing it to size five for Luas, 6 for Dart/Commuter. and the Intercity ones just were whatever I used last...
 * 2. Station Name alignment. Again When exported to PNG from SVG, Some of the alignment for fonts was terrible, I fixed some of them but haven't really had time to go in and do them all.
 * 3. Same as above.
 * 4. Poor Grammar on my Behalf.
 * 5. DCU in Common Usage is written as such. "DCU" while to be grammatically correct it should Be D.C.U. N.A.C. is never referred to as NAC though. St. Ave. Rd. are correct. Jc. is not really used outside Rail networks. and the Name of the Station IS "Lusk & Rush", which Contrasts to Salthill / Monkstown which should maybe be Salthill & Monkstown, but the Station name is as shown.
 * 6. These Indicate Links to Passenger Ferries. Yes should be keyed.
 * 7. I Created this in Illustrator, and the intention was to publish in SVG. However, for some reason Illustrator came up with an Unknown error and I had to export to PNG, When I did, Some of the Font Sizes and Alignments came out wrong. So doing guesswork in Illustrator to Align them correctly.
 * 8. The Planned Rail Line to Navan is done differently and I may need to have a look at it again. It SHOULD be a commuter line when complete. But the differences between the Commuter / Intercity / Dart Services is a very blurry Line at the moment.. Oh to Be like Germany and have an Intercity / S-Bahn and U - Bahn. all clearly defined...
 * Finally I am an Amateur. Design is something I do in my Spare time, I am learning Illustrator and not that familiar with SVG yet. I never expected this to be voted as a FP. Personally I think it needs too much work and while it does have high ENC Value. there is just to much up in the air about Planned stations / lines and services that will operate on them. So The Existing Lines, Under Construction Lines, and Planned lines will need to be clarified more. I haven't really come up with a convention for those its not like I've had 70 years of practice like TFL. This was very much a new direction for a map that I had [here] Which You can see is a lot more confusing. I went the Way of the London underground and ignored geographic locations and tried to make it as simple as possible (Which It isn't) you basically have 7 Rail Lines on 5 Services. and 2 Light rail lines. being a Dubliner, and appreciating top class rail networks in other cities I use in my travels. I HOPE the rail network in Dublin does actually look like this in 5 or 7 years time. There are very few good quality maps out there of this network (take a look at Irish Rails own Website! You should try moving around this network Like I do at the weekends.) This was my Attempt at adding a comprehensive and accurate diagram of it. So I'm afraid Oppose in this format. and I will upload a new version taking into account all the comments above as soon as I can. Stabilo boss (talk) 14:14, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand your frustration with such seeming fussiness. It's why I now rarely vote on diagrams; it takes me a long time to properly analyse the images, and usually annoys the creator. However I feel my comments are usually reasonable as far as EV, and FP worthiness for that matter, are concerned. I just get frustrated myself when people make unfair comments about supposed voting blocks here opposing particular images due to preconceived biases, when it's not the case; that sort of comment serves no purpose other than to discourage both voters (who feel maligned) and good contributors (who feel that their images will not be fairly judged). PS well done on the further work done. --jjron (talk) 13:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Suggest Delist and nominate the new version when it's ready. --Uncle Bungle (talk) 21:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * New Edit 2 Added Stabilo boss (talk) 07:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Support edit two. -- Schcambo aon scéal? 21:14, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support edit two SVG (I chaned my vote above) Intothewoods29 (talk) 20:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Support (Edit 2) - I particularly like this idea, and the drawing of the rail network is a good addition to the encyclopaedia. I would see no harm in it being nominated as a Featured Picture. Matthuxtable (talk) 20:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Nice one. --HighKing (talk) 00:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I intend to promote Image:Dublin Rail Network3.svg when I fix the breakage caused by the upcoming namespace change (Image -> File) (probably Tuesday). Any objections? MER-C 05:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment about SVG, MediaWiki SVG interpreter uses a sans-serif font while Firefox 3.0.3 is giving me horrible looking serif font for the text... is there a reason for this? Bad coding? Using non-standard font? gren グレン 23:51, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's MyriadPro Regular (never heard of it until I opened up the source). It's funny you got a serif, mine goes to what looks like Lucida Sans (FF 2.0.0.14). I'll bump the creator. MER-C 08:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - no wow factor whatsoever Oscar (talk) 04:23, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Edited Version (All Text Conv to Verdana) Stabilo boss (talk) 18:10, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Edit 2 SVG — Black and White 15:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment--I can't read the SVG at all. Chick Bowen 23:53, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * In what way? Too small? Bad font? Crappy SVG rasterizer (most likely)? Works for me. Going twice... MER-C 07:17, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The font is too small--I literally cannot read the names of the stations. This is in Firefox 3.0.3 for Windows.  But even if I open it in Inkscape I have to zoom to about 140% to read it. Chick Bowen 15:31, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose Does the world really need to be bored by a map of the Dublin Rail Network? I have no doubt that this map is useful to some, but with a featured picture I want to be interested in the subject or wowed by it. I am not interested and I doubt that there would be universal interest in the image. I could be wrong on the last point, however. LCpl Stephen Bolin, USMC (talk) 05:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "wow" isn't a requirement of FP though, it has to be accurate and technically strong, which this image is. --65.127.188.10 (talk) 22:12, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - This picture is awesome! I'm going to set it as my background! 8thstar 22:38, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment, this really needs some sources to verify the accuracy of this data. Also a time for when this is correct (as of X date). gren グレン 03:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

--jjron (talk) 13:36, 30 December 2008 (UTC)