Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/File:Sydney Ferry Collaroy 1 - Nov 2008.jpg

File:Sydney Ferry Collaroy 1 - Nov 2008.jpg
Voting period ends on 12 Aug 2010 at 15:45:44 (UTC)
 * Reason:It's been a while since I nominated anything, but after seeing Jjron's ferry photo, I thought I'd give this one a go. It's detailed and encyclopaedic, showing the ferry in action (taken from a sister ferry going in the opposite direction).
 * Articles in which this image appears:Manly ferry services and Sydney Ferries
 * FP category for this image:Featured_pictures/Engineering_and_technology/Others
 * Creator:User:Diliff


 * Support as nominator --&#208;iliff   &#171;&#187; (Talk)  15:45, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak Oppose This is a very nice picture. The exposure is good; it has action. Quite nice. But as *photography* goes, I don’t find it to be a “eye-catching” to the extent that it would likely elicit a “stop, stare, and click” reaction from our visiting I.P. readership. It certainly has EV for the subject matter of “Sydney Ferries”. However, as *subject matter* goes, I find the subject of “Sydney Ferries” to be more of local interest to people in Sydney than of broad, encyclopedic appeal to a general audience. Greg L (talk) 16:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely a fair enough evaluation, except that you should at least try to brush aside your personal interests and biases when reviewing FPC. None of us are as interested in Chicago/Illinois related subjects as Tony the Tiger is, but we can still support the better images (when sanity permits). Same goes for fungi and birds. A lot of people don't find them interesting too, but that's sort of beside the point. &#208;iliff   &#171;&#187; (Talk)  17:02, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * We all bring our personal biases to subjective judgements. Sorry. I’ll try to be more like you as I can see you are better at not bringing your personal biases to these votes. ;-) Local-related subjects are fine, IMHO, if I find that the picture is sufficiently “eye-catching to the point where users will want to read its accompanying article” (what I would call, “stop, stare & click”). Wolf Point at night is one such example. But others here seem to have a bias against *artsy* pictures (even though the picture might be stunningly beautiful) and the underlying logic seems to be that *artsy* is somehow incompatible with encyclopedic value. I don’t think it is. If the end result is “stop, stare, and click”, then we do Wikipedia and our readership a favor. That’s my take, anyway. Greg L (talk) 17:12, 3 August 2010 (UTC) P.S. I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are referring to when you suggested I should “brush aside” my “personal interests”. Oh dear! I wasn’t aware that I had *personal interests* that were clouding my judgement here. Might you explain what you meant by that?? I have no nominations under consideration here; no pictures I created under consideration here. And unless Tony the Tiger is coming to Washington state and giving me a roofie when I’m not looking, I’m not in bed with anyone here. So I don’t fathom what you’re driving at with that accusation. But I do note that if anyone has a “personal interest” here, it is you because I just voted Weak Oppose on a picture you created and self-nominated . So if anyone has a personal interest sufficient to make a baseless accusation against another Wikipedian, it seems it would be you, here, wouldn’t it? Please don’t take “oppose” votes so personally. This isn’t about this being a good picture or not (I think it clearly is). For me, this is simply about whether there will be something more broadly interesting and eye-catching to show on the Main Page for a day. Greg L (talk) 17:22, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Remove the word 'personal' and it's probably a bit less ambiguous then. I just meant interests that you, personally, have. Things that interest you. Interests and biases. I wasn't implying that you had something to gain from your vote and I certainly wasn't implying you were in bed with Tony the Tiger. :-) I think you've completely misinterpreted and overreacted here. &#208;iliff   &#171;&#187; (Talk)  18:49, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I see. I misunderstood what you meant by that. Sorry. So let’s instead address that comment (“personal interests”) by the way you meant it. Indeed, we all have to do our best to imagine what should have broad appeal to our readership. We have to think of our likely readership when we are writing text for our articles; pictures are no easier. We don’t want our articles written too complex or too dumbed down. There are no black & white answers and edit warring often occurs where some editors like to plop “textbook ralphs” of arcane mathematical symbology on articles whereas other editors have a KISS approach that explains the subject in plain-talk. We can only do our best to here when trying to get into our readers’ shoes and select what we think might have broad appeal. My take was that the combination of “ferry boat” (Meh), at [insert city name here] (Meh) and the nice but not spectacular composition (Meh) resulted in an image that wasn’t sufficiently eye-catching for what I think is the target readership. And the subject matter (“Sydney Ferries”) is very specific and lacks broad interest (IMO). Thus, without a “wow”-factor to make it “eye-catching,” (IMHO), and with such a strongly localized subject, I’m not seeing lots and lots of readers doing the “stop, stare & click”-thing. That’s my opinion; let’s see how others feel. I live in Spokane. Wikipedia has Spokane River Centennial Trail (a long, and nice nature walk along the river). I’ve been tempted to get a picture of it to add to the article. No matter how well I did, I doubt I’d ever be tempted to self-nominate for FP. Why? Because it would be your basic shot of a paved path along a river. Blah. And if I somehow managed to capture a stunningly beautiful composition that included a setting sun and reflecting waters and golden retrievers with smiles on their faces and Lady Gaga and Jessica Alba French kissing while in running shorts, it would get shot down for lacking EV (under the theory that “artsy” means a picture lacks “EV”). So, without the “eye-catching” bit (wow factor), we are left with the question of whether a stupid ol’ nature trail in Spokane would get readers to click on the article. I wouldn’t expect so. Sorry (to myself). Greg L (talk) 19:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Artsy isn't bad per se. It's just that artsy can't substitute for technical quality and EV.  I think you should take the picture if you can.  Possibly, the path by itself isn't remarkable to have much EV, but the overall scene, the geography and built environment, does have EV.  I'm sure Diliff has several, if not many FPs that could be interpreted as a "path along a river," so an attractive, illustrative photo should definitely have a chance. Fletcher (talk) 05:13, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. I think this satisfies all the criteria :) I'd probably want to click on this just as much, if not more than, the current POTD. -- bydand • talk  19:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The picture is photographically fine, but, like Diliff said, there's nothing particularly eye-popping about the content of the picture. It satisfies the technical criteria but not the subjective criteria, in my opinion. XeroJavelin (talk) 20:26, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I like this one, and the issue raised I don't see as much. Personally I'd be more tempted to click on this to find out more about it than a lot of picures that make FP here. JFitch   (talk)  21:02, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I like it. — raeky  T  02:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support per Jfitch & Bydand... I'm not gonna click on pictures of mushrooms or flowers or animals myself, whereas machines(especially if they are linked to my wannabe homeland Australia) certainly would result in a “stop, stare & click” from me... Gazhiley (talk) 10:24, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You're not going to click on burning human bodies either, I'm guessing. ;-) &#208;iliff   &#171;&#187; (Talk)  10:35, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha no! Not until I've wiped away the vomit... Gazhiley (talk) 11:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I think that this is a high quality photo with lots of EV. It's worth noting that the landscape in the background of the photo is typical of Sydney Harbour, so while it adds a bit of clutter, it also means that the ship has been photographed in her most common environment. Nick-D (talk) 11:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support Per Nick-D. — P. S. Burton  (talk)  12:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak support. EV's pretty good (not awesomely good, sorry) and the technicals are sound. The composition's great, really dynamic. It would have been a full support if we had an article on this boat in particular. J Milburn (talk) 13:13, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak support, technically nice, but somewhat of a mundane subject taken in a standard way. Not the photographers fault as far as I can see, its just a bit like the 20MP manhole cover someone mentioned here a while ago. Some subjects don't lend themselves for spectactular (and yet encyclopedic!) pictures. Almost makes me want to nominate one of my ferries, but I'm sure after seeing three ferry nominations people will be extra eager to find fault to stop the series ;-). --Dschwen 14:39, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, I quite like that ferry of yours, it's actually an interesting utilitarian design (shame about the smudge of a seagull in front of it though). Maybe I'm just a bit of a ferryspotter. :-) &#208;iliff   &#171;&#187; (Talk)  16:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support Good technicals and EV. The wow factor has been debated above, but it works for me - I like the close up perspective, and there is a sense of motion in the image that draws you into it (seen in the splash around the bow, and the sailboat heeling over). Fletcher (talk) 04:35, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

-- Jujutacular  talk 18:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)