Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Jews Praying in the Synagogue on Yom Kippur

Jews Praying in the Synagogue on Yom Kippur

 * Reason:This seems to have become a popular illustration for all things Jewish on Wikipedia. It's featured on Commons for its quality; I'm nominating it here for its usefulness.
 * Articles this image appears in:Prominent on Yom Kippur, Jewish identity, Maurycy Gottlieb. Also appears on Judaism, Jew.
 * Creator:Maurycy Gottlieb
 * Nominator: grendel|khan


 * Support &mdash; grendel|khan 15:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. It needs a good extended caption.  There is some good information in the description on the image page (and more on the museum page), but the prose is weak and it doesn't explain anything beyond a literal reading of the image and the personal connection to the artist.  Why has this painting in particular come to stand for "all things Jewish"?  What was Jewish life in Drohobycz in the mid-19th century like?  Also, it says the title is "Jews Praying...", but according to the museum page it is "Day of Atonement".  What's up with that? --ragesoss 18:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "Yom Kippur" is Hebrew for "Day of Atonement", so it's a decision in how it's translated from the original. The caption on the book I used was "Jews Praying in the Synagogue on Yom Kippur", which could as easily be read as "Jews Praying in the Synagogue on the Day of Atonement". The captions have been expanded in all articles except Judaism, which already had an acceptable caption (I think). grendel|khan 20:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "Extended caption" refers to the background and description material on the image page itself, which should be approximately what would go on the main page when it gets its turn on Picture of the Day. How it is captioned on individual articles is not necessarily relevant to a featured picture candidacy (though if you've improved the captions in those articles, that's a good thing in and of itself).  See Picture_of_the_day/March_2007 for examples, though with meaning- and context-rich images like this one, I think a longer version that can be trimmed to typically POTD blurb length would be better.  Others may disagree with me about the necessity of going above and beyond a POTD blurb, but at a minimum the prose on the image page should be improved.--ragesoss 04:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I understand now. I've added an extended caption on the image page; the paragraphs I'd had previously didn't really fit into the Commons template for paintings. I've written a short paragraph for the image. grendel|khan 05:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support have seen this image before its very good quality, and as a Jew I can confirm it is accurate. Although I do think they all look depressed, not exactly a celebration. Ahadland 22:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC) 22:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is Yom Kippur--penitent and a bit hungry should be about right.grendel|khan
 * I was just saying, if its symbolic of all things Jewish people are gonna think all Jews are moody Ahadland 14:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Commment: How do we know that these are Ashkenazi jews, as it says in the Jewish identitu caption, whats the difference between an Ashkenazi and a Hasidic, I'm reform so I wouldnt know. Ahadland 15:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support. Excellent quality; highly illustrative. - Mgm|(talk) 10:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ashkenazi are of eastern European descent, and Hasids are a branch of conservative Jews. I think you mean to ask, how do we know they are Ashkenazi, and not Sephardic_Jews (who are from Iberia)? Good question. Debivort 15:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ye but we dont know where these Jewish people are from they could be Hasidic, Reform, or Ashkenazi. How do we know?
 * Well, judging from their dress they could be Hasids, seem very unlikely to be Reform, and I think we have no way of knowing if they are Ashkenazi or Saphardic.Debivort 01:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not Sephardi These people are not Sephardim, and you can tell because the two people in the lower-right are not wearing tallitim. It is the custom of all Sephardim that boys over 13 years of age wear a tallit for prayer. Ashkenazim only start wearing them after marriage. HaravM 21:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Without wishing to go into a Jewish studies lesson, and folloing the information here, the picture is of Polish Jews (hence Ashkenazi) in the 19th Century (therefore likely Orthodox, also separate seating for men and women). The painting is entitled "Day of Atonement", as correctly said this is the English name for "Yom Kippur".  It's not encyclopedic for Yom Kippur or Jewish prayer as it's a very stylised scene.  It may be encyclopedic so far as Jewish art is concerned, that's a matter for debate. Pstuart84 Talk 19:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hasidism originated in Eastern Europe, Pstuart84 --User:Ahadland1234 12:19, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Quite. I made no comment about whether these Ashkenazi Jews were Chasidic or not. Pstuart84 Talk 15:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Support I'm Jewish myself, and I think this painting illustrates very well the jewish ambiance. Tomer T 00:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support, sharp scan, etc. gren グレン 07:03, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Beautiful. Kla'quot 07:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Some parts of the faces look like photographs...stunning.--HereToHelp 13:35, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support It's a fine, compelling work of art. I say this as a Jew, but I think non-Jews will also learn something from it. YechielMan 00:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Like 5 of the supporters are jewish... odd eh? 8thstar 18:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really. I feel like the voter to lurker ratio in the FPC pages is about 1:8 and every now and then an image comes along that pulls people out of the woodwork. Debivort 03:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you implying Jews shouldn't support their religion? You sound like your hinting at anti-Semitism too --82.36.182.217 21:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoa, whoa. That's uncalled for. The comment just says that people are more likely to vote on an image that speaks to them; I'd expect that a fantastic piece of LDS art would get a lot of Mormon votes, or that a great picture of the Alamo would get Texans voting for it. Please don't be so quick to assume the worst. (Also, please sign in. Judging by this edit, I think you're Ahadland1234, but I can't be sure.) grendel|khan 22:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Non-jewish support, although I think it could be downsampled a bit. ~ trialsanderrors 06:24, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support compelling picture. Gaius Cornelius 23:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose I almost laughed when I saw this. This is most certainly not a depiction of devoted Jews praying to God with reverence, which is the real situation on Yom Kippur. This is also from a not-so-religious Synagogue, because the partition between the men and women sections is too short. In this kind of Synagogue, what do you expect other than some people who just think the day is all about sitting around waiting to eat again? Should not have been painted in the first place, IMO - it sends the wrong message about Jews and their real devotion. It has so much support, though, that I feel I'm helpless to prevent such a picture from seeming to others that Jews just care about eating - not praying. Oh, well. All is for the greater good. HaravM 21:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. I said above this was a stylised scene and therefore not enyclopedic for Jewish prayer/Yom Kippur.  But it could be encyclopedic so far as Jewish art is concerned, and is certainly encyclopedic for Maurycy Gottlieb. Pstuart84 Talk 22:29, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, then, if it is not illustrating an article on Jewish art, why is it featured? If there is a beautiful picture of a frog which is only used on an article about flies because frogs eat flies, would that be featured (because it wouldn't really improve the article)? HaravM 05:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

--Enuja 00:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)