Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Mirror writing calligraphy

Mirror writing calligraphy

 * Reason:Mirror writing calligraphy flourished in the early modern Ottoman Empire where it was associated with the Bektashi order and carried mystical connotations. Restored version of File:Mirror writing.jpg.
 * Articles this image appears in:Mirror writing, Islamic calligraphy, Culture of the Ottoman Empire, Ali
 * Creator:Mahmoud Ibrahim


 * Support as nominator -- Durova Charge! 07:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Support Good EV. For everyone's information, the phrase Ali is the vicegerent of God is one of the fundamentals of Shia Islam and one of the first religious phrases taught to children :-) Image could be added to Ali as well, under Succession to Muhammad. --Muhammad (talk)  13:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion, done. Durova Charge! 16:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't understand the choice of leaving the modern mounting on the outside yet cleaning up other signs of this being a picture of a surviving artifact (i.e., the smudges, stains and other damage).  If this is supposed to show the surviving writing in a modern context, then most of the cleanup isn't appropriate.  If it's supposed to be a restoration to what it may have looked before history took its toll, then the mounting should be removed (it could be replaced with solid white, if a border is still necessary aesthetically because of the closely cropped paper).--ragesoss (talk) 16:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The red is not the modern mounting, Ragesoss. On the original file File:Mirror writing.jpg, the modern mounting is secured by fibers to the outside of the red period mounting.  Durova Charge! 16:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Intermediate mounting then. Not the original, though, and the original paper was probably never this clean since it was put on the red mounting.--ragesoss (talk) 18:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There seems to be a problem with the LoC page hosting link (not sure how). The bibliographic notes do state that this is the original border mounting and the calligrapher's artistic choice: The calligrapher has used the central vertical fold in the thick cream-colored paper to help trace the exact calligraphic duplication (Selim 1979, 162) prior to mounting it onto a cardboard and pasting rectangular pink frames along its borders.  Durova Charge! 19:32, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If that's the case, then I don't have a problem with it. That should be noted on the image page, though.--ragesoss (talk) 19:44, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Done. :)  Durova Charge! 20:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The note on the image page makes no sense, as the central crease has been removed in the restoration. I'm not keen on restorations of this nature, where a good deal of original detail is removed for no real reason. It looks neater, but probably never was as clean and uncreased as this. Is there a reason why it needs to be cleaned up to this extent? mikaultalk 01:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A substantial amount of degradation occurred in the three centuries since this image was made. Pigmentation flecked away from stress points, particularly the crease, and dirt gathered in crevices.  Addressing that means making choices, such as a decision that paper seams themselves would remain visible with considerably less grime.  A fold in a fresh piece of paper that has been flattened and glued to another surface is virtually invisible.  Not absolutely invisible, of course, and that is where file size makes the difference.  In a 60MB source image there would be enough data to reproduce that detail convincingly.  This was a 21.8MB source file before cropping.  Durova Charge! 02:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with mikaul here; the crease is significant for understanding the image, and ought not be obliterated.--ragesoss (talk) 16:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

--Muhammad (talk) 17:09, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: "Vicegerent of God" is a very narrow and specific translation of the general Arabic phrase ولي الله, which in many contexts would be translated "friend of God" (see Wali)... AnonMoos (talk) 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Support GerardM (talk) 21:44, 19 January 2009 (UTC) It is important to be a rich resource of all the types of calligraphy. These restorations help in this.
 * Support My support was weak until I saw the un-restored version. What an amazing job you did in the restoration. Omnibus (talk) 08:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Support Per Omnibus, all the more impressive considering the state of the original. Not too keen about the fold, but oh well…--HereToHelp (talk to me) 00:39, 21 January 2009 (UTC)