Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Primula

Primula hortensis
Voting period ends on 15 Aug 2010 at 12:15:12 (UTC)
 * Reason:High EV, nice quality
 * Articles in which this image appears:Eudicots
 * FP category for this image:Plants/Flowers
 * Creator:Aka


 * Support as nominator --Extra 999 (Contact me +  contribs) 12:15, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: The EV is not fantastic, right now. This image is also used in Primula and herbalism, but the EV is fairly minimal in both of them, too. We have this identified to species level- an article on the species in particular would be good. A quick look on Google isn't throwing up anything good. I've got a couple of big garden flower encyclopedia type books at home so I can probably write a short article for you in a few days. J Milburn (talk) 12:35, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose nuclear primula! Sorry, but why drag up an over 5 year old image for FP now? It is small (1.5MP), oversharpened, noisy, has clipped channels and does not show the entire plant (limited EV). --Dschwen 15:13, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is clearly a well done photo of flowers. However, a picture of flowers—even if it is a nice picture of flowers—is simply not a genre capable of eliciting a “stop, stare & click” reaction on our Main Page when our Featured Pictures are a Picture Of The Day. I think pictures of flowers would have to be rather unusual (like spectacularly large fields of flowers for perfume) or the type of flower would have to be very unusual (like they can poison people with shooting darts from two feet away) to merit FP status. Greg L (talk) 15:17, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and they have to be photographed from one foot distance, with the photographers last dying breath, or even better: his muscular spasms induced by the plants neurotoxin cramping his finger on the shutter release :-D. No, but seriously, I agree with the gist of Greg's comment. --Dschwen 15:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Seriously? You two don't see flowers as something worth staring at? Pretty flowers are something that I would have thought pass your "stop, stare & click" test pretty much automatically. Flowers are grown in gardens around the world almost entirely because they are worth looking at. Exactly what does pass this test of yours? J Milburn (talk) 15:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If we’re gonna start showing pictures of flowers on the Main Page, let’s not have a closeup of azaleas from the retired guy’s house on the corner, but some sort of amazing looking picture of a man-eating-size flower that grows only in Africa—with a pith helmet in its smiling mouth (*burp*). Pictures of flowers are terribly common. I’m sure there are some really unusual (and beautiful too) pictures of flowers out there. You know… something truly interesting too to highlight that Wikipedia is a place of learning. Greg L (talk) 16:05, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak support I think the person who chooses to argue that a lead image has 'minimal EV' is taking the losing side of the argument at FPC, even worse when you notice that this is featured on 2 other Wikimedia projects (not that they're always right). Also is the person who persist in going against the criteria when on both axes it exceeds the minimal 1000px (maybe Dschwen should check that his DPI is high enough if a 1500x1051 image looks small on whatever monitor he's using, but w/e NOMB). I agree with J Milburn, I happen to love plants and probably better than 3/5 times I see a plant image on Wikipedia I'm clicking because I want to learn about that plant. Plant images are common, but it's kind of an ignorant take-for-granted thing to see a plant and think "It's just a plant." The plant kingdom is very complex and diverse, and damned if they're not beautiful, but I do wish there were more dynamic to this, it could've been photographed from a different angle and it would almost be a whole, different thing. -- I'ḏ ♥  One  18:15, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's the lead image on a very high taxonomic rank (technically not a taxonomic rank, but let's not get into specifics here). At species level, the lead image has clear EV, at genus level, the lead will normally have strong EV- when you're getting to family or higher (this is several ranks above family, though, in this case, it isn't quite that simple...) the "automatic EV for a lead image" argument starts to become questionable. At this level, I question whether a composite image may not be more appropriate, and I question what makes this so clearly representative of the group when it is not considered clearly representative of much lower taxa. This would become an academic argument if someone was to write a species article (as I have said I may). J Milburn (talk) 18:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, the higher up you go the more possible species you could use to demonstrate that rank. -- I'ḏ ♥  One  18:41, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pardon me if I don't use the criteria as an excuse to switch off my brain. I was under the impression that the main goal of FPC is identifying the top images of wikipedia. --Dschwen 03:58, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I did kind of agree that the image isn't spectacular, but it is technically good. I think keeping 'technicals' in mind helps keep things fair. -- I'ḏ  ♥  One  06:04, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Dude!? Looks like you read just half of my comment. It is nottechnically good. --Dschwen 21:27, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The technicals of the criteria disagree with you, and that's where the discussion ends. FP criteria doesn't say anything about technique, composition, age or subject, so any objections based on those things are merely the opinions of the voter. This image somewhat exceeds the current minimums of FP criteria, therefore (∴) it IS technically good - You will respect FPC criteria's authoritah! -- I'ḏ ♥  One  22:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This is shocking ignorance. Is this how you evaluate the "technicals", bigger than 1000px on the larger side, therefore it is technically good?! Wow. Again your answer makes me think that you have not read the oversharpened, noisy, has clipped channels part of my first comment. Why? --Dschwen 23:46, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I read your comment before I posted my first, and it seems to me the ignorance is that you don't seem to understand the difference between official policy and personal opinion, at worst that indicates of some kind of an ego. It is your opinion  that the image is bad/overworked just as it was the opinion of the voters at Commons and the German Wikipedia that decided to feature it that is was not. One user on Commons even said "...exceptional. Well done!". Still, there are quality concerns listed in the criteria, so even though I stated before that I don't really care about this image, which still stands, I'll apologize if you can prove to me that it is overworked. The only thing I notice is slight fuzziness. -- I'ḏ ♥  One  00:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If you insist on trying to wikilawyer your way out of this please at least get the terms correct. Featured_picture_criteria is not official policy. What it is is best described as written down consensus of a small subcommunity, namely active FPC people. And that written down version is an old consensus, and it is doubtful that it would be written like this today. A recent poll showed that current consensus is that candidate images should have at least about 1.9-2MP. It is a mere beurocratic technicality (or call it inertia) that the criteria have not been updated accordingly. So yes, everybody is voicing an opinion here, and I have stated mine. I do not have to prove anything to you. If you don't see the flaws of the image that is not my problem. Furthermore I'm not really concerned about votes on de and commons from several years ago (or would you suggest automatic transfer of feature status?!). The technical level of images here has progressed since then. Ignoring this fact is against common sense. --Dschwen 02:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Really almost none of Wiki's policies are official or without exceptions, I know that. I don't mind the current 1000px rule because for one I think 1000px is decent size, a monitor with a dimension that long to me looks like an average-size frame, it's near-average size for most printed documents and I feel I've seen plenty of images to have seen that bigger size doesn't necessarily mean better quality or an image with more eye appeal per se. I also don't mind the criteria standards or see observing as "wikilawyering" because if we don't have some kind of criteria we'll never get anything done, everyone will just bicker about what standards they things should be up to. If I were to have my say in this never-ending debate I'd suggest we just shut the whole thing up and update the uploader to be able to convert all uploads to SVG. Not sure about "auto-transfer" or project-by-project promotions, right now I'm slightly leaning toward my VPC-to-FPC hierarchy idea (don't feel like linking since debate on VPC talk seems to wound down) or maybe we just leave features to Commons, but IDK. -- I'ḏ ♥  One  03:27, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh huh, so you know it is not official policy and yet called it that... to spice up you comment? Listen, why don't you go about not minding the 1000px "rule", and just get out of my hair! As long as you are happy viewing the images on your iPhone, or whatever tiny screen you use for browsing, and do not recommend to uploaders to just upsample their images, no harm will be done. Leave others their opinions, and if you don't understand them, ignore them. --Dschwen 04:06, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It is official in that they are the rules that have been there and apparently the powers that be at Wikipedia think are worth keeping and that we both have argued for, yes, you, too, Mr. accusations of too much digital manipulation, but it's not official in that Wikipedia is a more laid back web community where it's less likely someone's gonna drop a hammer on you for not following a rule once in a while, we even have conflicting policies like NPOV vs. Be bold, that's what I meant and I never implied any sort of hypocrisy. Secondly, you started this argument, don't be mad because you found someone who can give it right back. Lastly I don't think anyone is crazy enough to try to mess with FPC on an iPhone, maybe you if, again a 1500px image looks small on your screen. -- I'ḏ ♥  One  04:46, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Give right back? What is coming back? You are just weaseling around. Is that making me mad? No, but a bit disillusioned in the quality of votes we might get here. For crying out loud you mad a snide comment in you vote, and now you are saying I "started it". Sheesh. --Dschwen 12:25, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

--Makeemlighter (talk) 18:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)