Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Sandi Jackson

Sandi Jackson
Voting period ends on 21 Aug 2010 at 00:19:13 (UTC)
 * Reason:This is a professional photo that has already proven to make main page viewers click through as a highly viewed DYK.
 * Articles in which this image appears:Sandi Jackson
 * FP category for this image:Featured pictures/People/Political
 * Creator:Powell Studios


 * Support as nominator --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. After considerable snooping, Googling, consideration and reading of OTRS tickets, I can now say that I am completely certain that this is legit, copyright-wise. So, on with the show- lovely portrait, high quality, clear EV. A big yes from me. J Milburn (talk) 00:54, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose The quality of the portrait is fine. However, since portraits are so terribly ubiquitous, achieving FP status based on eye-catching quality is tough for portraits; they really have to be special, which this one isn’t (it’s *fine*). So that leaves us with the inherent interest of the subject matter. A Chicago alderman—even if she is the wife of someone rather notable—lacks the inherent notability sufficient to merit awarding FP status on that basis. Greg L (talk) 02:43, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comments 1. Do we count unsigned opinions. 2. I thought we established that it was eye-catching at DYK when it caused thousands of clickthroughs.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:40, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I'm completely not sold on the idea that we somehow have a lower threshhold for portraits of more notable people. J Milburn (talk) 08:40, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If shes notable enough to pass WP:N and have our own article here, then a picture of her is every bit as worthy to be a FP then a picture of say the president. We don't have different levels of notability. The article has over 100 references, if you feel it doesn't pass WP:N then nominate it for deletion, otherwise don't oppose it on notability grounds if she has a very well sourced article. — raeky  T  15:03, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Quoting you, Raeky: If shes notable enough to pass WP:N and have our own article here, then a picture of her is every bit as worthy to be a FP then a picture… That is a fallacious argument. There are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of articles on profoundly minor subjects. We can’t use the fact that subject matter is sufficiently notable for an article on it to even exist on Wikipedia as a litmus text for whether we think it is a slick idea to have it as a Featured Picture on the Main Page for a day. Just because we have an article on the music band Heads Hands & Feet (who once played at Dagenham Roundhouse in 1971) doesn’t mean it is a *wise* (or *desirable*) idea to have an FP picture of them. We have an article on Grommet too. The pictures on “Grommet” suck. I can do better. Want me to self-nominate it if I take a better picture of a grommet? And, no, I’m not saying that Sandi Jackson is as non-notable as a grommet (I thought I’d preempt that line of counterargument here). I’m saying 1) the argument that an article exists on a subject does not mean that automatically makes the subject of such universal fascination and interest across all English-speaking cultures that it is deserving of being featured on the Main Page; and 2) an alderman of a U.S. city is (IMHO) not sufficiently notable for FP, and 3) she’s another Chicago-related subject and we’ve passed far more than enough Chicago-related subjects. Word has it there are other parts of this planet that English-speaking readers might be interested in. And, by the way, it took me a while to participate to this because I had business to attend to in both Indianapolis and Chicago. Mindful that we had yet another picture of Chicago to nominate for FP status, I had the insight to take a picture of “Greg L’s foot in front of Miller’s Pub as I was driving by in the back seat of a taxi under Chicago’s “L”. Three subjects: Greg L’s foot in Chicago, the Chicago L, and Miller’s Pub in Chicago. I was thoughtful enough to e-mail it to Raeky from the taxi in case she wanted to forward it to Sir Tiger for consideration. ;-)  Greg L (talk) 17:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think thats true, if we have a notable article about something and we have a very good illustration of it that meets all the FP criteria, then it's worthy to be a FP. Even if it is an obscure band like Heads Hands & Feet or a mundane object like a Grommet. Some things may be very difficult to get a FP worthy image, but not impossible. There is no requirement in our FP criteria for some arbitrary notability threshold. — raeky  T  17:58, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, it’s your opinion that there is no “requirement” about notability. I don’t share it. WP:Common sense makes a lot of things happen on Wikipedia without explicit “requirement”. When it comes to making readers want to click on a picture or its related article (stop, stare & click), I think we can find plenty of interesting, encyclopedic subjects between Topless beaches (that’s cheating—and the picture is too dark anyway), and Grommet. The plain fact is that because of Tony The Tiger, Chicago-related pictures are disproportionately represented on POTD. Try throwing a dart at a spinning globe and see how often you hit Chicago. Can we find pictures not related to Chicago for a while? And don’t make me nominate a picture of a damned grommet to make a point here. Greg L (talk) 18:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC) P.S. Besides, this is just another portrait. The odds are already stacked against it just because of that. Greg L (talk) 18:11, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You're still associating FPC with POTD, they're not the same project. POTD's draw upon FP's but not every FP will be a POTD. We don't promote FP's based on if they will be a great POTD or not. "Illustrates the subject in a compelling way, making the viewer want to know more" doesn't mean in context to seeing it on the front page, but in context to seeing it in the article. When you first load up an article, your eyes are naturally drawn to pictures first, if theres great pictures your more apt to (a) read the article and (b) be interested enough in the subject to read more then just that one article. Thats what that criteria means. You need to forget about POTD, it's irrelevant for the FPC process. We only bring it up when a subject of a picture is potentially not something we'd show on the front page, like burning bodies. In an ideal world we'd have one or more FP for every subject and article we have in the encyclopedia. — raeky  T  18:17, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with Raeky here. There is absolutely no notability requirement at FPC- if we have an article on the subject that is well illustrated by an image, then it has as much right to be a FP as the Mona Lisa. Equally, there is no notability requirement at FAC, and nor should there be- featured content is about the quality of the article, image, sound, list or whatever- not about our opinions of the subject. J Milburn (talk) 18:40, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Good. An important element of FP pictures is they are supposed to be of such high quality and beauty, or be on a topic of such general interest, that our readers would either want to click the picture to see a larger version or click the article to read up on the subject (or both). You can vote “Suppport Love it -Gotta seem more” on pictures of grommets and other crap people aren’t interested in; I’m not. As for Raeky’s POTD's draw upon FP's but not every FP will be a POTD, I’m not convinced that is the case; not with a year-long queue for Howcheng. At least most (if not all) of what we are voting for ends up in his POTD queue (now numbering over 400 entries). Howcheng wrote on his talk page to me about how he is struggling to spread out all our bug pictures and what not. He wrote (here), as follows: …and there are still a bunch of insect photos that I haven't used yet to keep from flooding the Main Page with bugs! We’re promoting far too much stuff from certain themes (bird, bugs, Chicago) because of a small number of regulars who squat here and because the rest of us haven’t paid attention to the long-term ramifications of what we’ve been doing. I’m tired of seeing truly ho-hum garbage awarded FP status. I once saw a vote on the FP page that said something along the lines of “Support - No major problems.” I have a higher hurdle for what I vote “support” on—so shoot me. With a queue waiting for POTD of over a year now, and a gazillion pictures related to Chicago, we need to tighten up this ship. I’m done here arguing about this for the day. Goodbye. Greg L (talk) 19:08, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support - this is the kind of thing I'd love to see more of at FPC. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:42, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not the best taken --Extra  9 9 9  (Contact me  +  contribs) 11:12, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? J Milburn (talk) 11:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

--Makeemlighter (talk) 02:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)