Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Sunset at sea

Sunset at sea
Voting period ends on 25 May 2010 at 22:05:36 (UTC)
 * Reason:Second try, almost two years after. A long discussion took place here, after the first nomination failed on the ground that the picture did not represent sunset. The clear consensus of the discussion was that it was the best available picture illustrationg the subject.
 * Articles in which this image appears:Sunset
 * FP category for this image:Featured pictures/Natural phenomena/Atmospheric optics
 * Creator:Alvesgaspar (talk)


 * Support as nominator --Alvesgaspar (talk) 22:05, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that possible? the existence of the best available picture of a sunset. I find that it could be better. The cone of shadow to the sides of the sun is not a good feature (I mean, not that it is there, but that it is so dark). The sun is also not centered. Although this, depending on the rest of the picture, can be used satisfactorily, in this case it just seems accidental. I guess that with such a common subject as sunsets I can ask for a god's designed picture for FP, can I? Abisharan (talk) 22:43, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Question Do we not have a FP already of a sunset? I find that hard to believe. Theres also a zillion sunset images on Commons too... Is this the best one out of _all of those_ that the editors of Sunset agree is the best? — raeky ( talk 01:41, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is unquestionably a very fine sunset picture. The long lens instantly leaves most hobbyists in the dust. However, the category of sunsets is extraordinarily competitive with many, truly astounding pictures freely available on the Web. Wikipedia would not be well served unless we featured something on the main page for 24 hours that truly stood out from your basic “Travel to the Bahamas and get laid”-poster, like this one, and this one too. Greg L (talk) 02:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - Let me try to clarify. This is not for sure the most astounding picture depicting the sunset available in Wikimedia (or in the web). Nor it is the intent of the nomination to enchant the reviewers with its marvelous colors and composition, or to convince anyone to travel with me to the Bahamas and get laid. But it is one of the best available pictures (the best, according to the outcome of the discussion above) showing the sun during sunset. That is what makes its encyclopaedic value relevant and justifies this nomination. As for the suggestion to center the sun in the image (why not the horizon too?), well, it would ruin the composition (yes, the composition is also important :-) ) -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 11:13, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. It is a fine picture. I suppose I voted ‘oppose’ based upon a broader criteria than whether it is the finest Wikipedia has to offer. Rather, I think it is in Wikipedia’s best interests to view a picture of a sunset more broadly and consider how it is an extraordinarily ubiquitous subject that readers have literally seen thousands of. There is a lot of truly stunning work out there; like this picture showing the sun, which makes one stop and look. I’m thinking readers shouldn’t have a reaction of “been there – done that.” I hope other wikipedians feel otherwise for your benefit. But I hope others will agree with me for Wikipedia’s benefit. Sunsets are a bit like that classic picture of a newly wedded couple at their reception playfully smashing cake into the others’ pie-hole: one would have to have truly stunning quality and composition to set it apart from the millions of others on the same topic we’ve all seen—even if it is the best one that happens to be on Wikipedia. Greg L (talk) 19:12, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if that is the best example you can show of a stunning work... I would rather call it small, poor quality, kitschy and of none encyclopaedic value. If you are looking for truly extraordinary images in Wikipedia, the discussion linked to above has a couple of them to offer. May I say again that the purpose of this picture in the article (and the purpose of this nomination) is not to impress the readers with beauty but showing a natural phenomenon in the best possible way? -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 20:13, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * “Kitschy” 1 : something that appeals to popular or lowbrow taste and is often of poor quality 2 : a tacky or lowbrow quality or condition  Uhm… Okay. Well, I learn a new word every once in a while on Wikipedia. Thanks. Greg L (talk) 22:29, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and you can also learn that that image is not kitschy at all. It is very well orchestrated although not the original high resolution file. In any case. It is not a point that image or comparing this one to any other. I don't understand what kind of syllogism leads from centering the sun to centering the horizon. The horizon is a strong horizontal line that is placed there to enhance the importance of the sky as what is being shown is a celestial phenomenon. The sun to the left would be nice if there were strong vertical or diagonal lines emanating from the sun to the right. That is not the case. Also, it is not even too much to the left to say that the are using rule of thirds. It is clearly accidental. Just to the crop from the right (that would beg for a little crop from above too) and you will see that looks, in fact, better. It is just that with this subject we can ask for excellence and this picture is not really excellent.  Abisharan (talk) 22:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * To Alvesgaspar: I think it is safe to say we have to agree to disagree on this one. I do hope that is OK with you? I’ve stated that it is clearly a very fine picture. But I appear to be having a reaction similar to that which raeky and Abisharan seem to be having here: Given the gazillion other pictures of sunsets (some of which make many a reader stop and stare for a moment, like this one), our readership has been inculcated with pretty high expecations. Though I find yours to be a “fine” picture, I also find the composition (telephoto view of a half-set sun over the ocean) to be almost a cliché. So I’m just not seeing this one as being FP material. So sorry. BTW, I suppose I should also add, for future reference, that it is sort of a mistake to uhm… rigorously defend one’s self-nomination here on FPC; you just sort of go with the flow and really listen to what others are saying. Not all of the opinions you’ll see will seem to have much validity (garbage like “it was saved as .jpg rather than a .png”), but it is pretty much self-defeating for the self-nominator to get in there and argue with those who vote oppose. Whether you want to take that bit of advise to heart or not is up to you. In any case, goodbye; there is nothing more to say I haven’t already said. Happy editing and keep up the good work with your photography. And good luck; you have only one oppose vote so far. :-) Greg L (talk) 04:42, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Greg L, for your nice words. Yes, it is safe to say we agree to disagree. But on this one only! Cheers. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 07:33, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * PS - Here in WP:FPC we have indeed the tradition of discussing the reviewers' assessments. Very often this practise sheds significant light on the relevant issues and helps to improve the pictures, with obvious benefict for the articles and the project. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 08:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

--Makeemlighter (talk) 22:20, 25 May 2010 (UTC)